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NEWS: Japan's Animation Blu-ray Disc Ranking, September 9-15


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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:09 am Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
rederoin wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:

People just seem to believe that all trends start and end with Kyoani. As usual their place in the industry is way overestimated by people that are desperate to make idols out of them. At best as someone else pointed out Kyoani has all but perfected the art of timing and pandering along with SHAFT, timing things for low volume and low competition seasons to take advantage of a lack of competition and emerging trends in order to churn out sales hit after sales hit, but IMO at the cost of shows that are anything approaching particularly special or cutting edge. The only Kyoani show I'd even begin to attach such a distinction to would be Haruhi while everything else just feels like following the market and having absolutely no ambition of their own.


Shaft turning out hit after hit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just look At Sasami-san, it defied all expectations with its ridiculously high sales. Or just look at the large amount of shaft-series that managed to sell over 10k!

Sunrise & Kyoani are nothing to compared to Shaft when it comes to making hits.


I kind of forgot SHAFT makes stuff besides the Monogatari series and Madoka. Confused

That says a lot about you.
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sakuragtin



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 222
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:20 am Reply with quote
As a female (BL loving) fan, I bought Free! It's on its way home right now with Karneval vol.2. Sooooo yeah.
Guess some people like to have their panties in knots about everything. Like if it doesn't sell 50k+ it obviously didn't sell well at all, 25k+ is a pitiful showing. Cause every male oriented otaku show ever made sells 50k+ everybody knows that. Yeah, totally true. Rolling Eyes
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5459
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:30 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:
That's very tough to answer. All we get publicly are critisms of the work that may/may not reveal anything about the story itself. For example, here's what we got for High Speed!, which Free! is a sequel to:
Quote:
Brimming with vibrancy and translucence, it felt fresh as I finished reading.
The story depicted each of the main characters' emotions and struggles well.
Considering the setting is a swimming race, you're able to feel the obsession with "water" the author had.
I'm concerned that the characters' ages and personalities don't match.
Though the story was told in first-person narrative, the point-of-view switched characters often, so at times it left me troubled.


I'll check again when I have some free time later (after Free! of course).


Thanks, I appreciate that! Very Happy

If this is going to be KyoAni's approach for the next couple of years, I would like to know what the heck those light novel entries are about even with little info it has. Though I am most curious on the 2 LNs that have websites but not have an anime adaptation; I have a feeling those 2 are next in line.
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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:54 pm Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
If this is going to be KyoAni's approach for the next couple of years, I would like to know what the heck those light novel entries are about even with little info it has. Though I am most curious on the 2 LNs that have websites but not have an anime adaptation; I have a feeling those 2 are next in line.
Now those I can talk a little about.

The first novel (besides Chuunibyou) to be published in the KA Esmua bunko label was called Yuuyaku Toudai no Himitsu (TL: Secret of the Sunset Lighthouse). This is the only novel in the label that was not originally a submission in the Kyoto Animation Award; it's the collected version of a story written by scriptwriter/scenarioist Fumihiko Shimo that was published in KyoAni's online periodical (along with a bonus short for the novel). It details a high schooler leaving his house and heading towards the lighthouse where his grandmother used to live. There, he finds three sisters living there. It details about the place being haunted and more about ghosts. I've not fully read it (time/energy is at a premium), so I can't detail how it goes more than that.

The other novel that hasn't been animated is Oyashiki to Coppelia (TL: The Mansion and Coppelia). It won an honorable mention in the first Award, like Chuunibyou did. Coppelia is an automaton made to work in a mansion. She's deemed a failure since she doesn't have a beating heart. She starts to experience emotions as she works with the other maids and spends time with one of them who's a bit frail. This was written by Mutsuki Ichinose, who's also written for GA Bunko and who wrote the Tamako Market novelization.

I doubt either of them have sold that well due to the lack of anime adaptations. That's probably why High Speed! was released after Free! started.
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Jen Bigby



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:39 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
The reason there's a combative female power mentality is because people in this forum and all over the internet have tried to make it a point to prove that there's no need to target the female audience because "women should be happy with what they already have" and that KyoAni made a big mistake in "betraying" its male otaku audience, which will cause them and die and burn in otaku hell and their stupid attempt at opening new markets will bomb because women don't buy anime.


So this is all based on some strawman argument you created? Confused It doesn't matter what people on here or other American anime sites say.. it shouldn't mean you have to resort to nerd tribalism like we're in some versus match. The sales market is no place for silly us vs them arguments when it's pretty common knowledge women don't buy as much anime as men do, kinda like how women buy more DVDs while men buy BDs which are reflective in the sales here and in other shows like Tiger & Bunny that have a decent number of DVD copies sold. All the talk of equality isn't going to change the Japanese marketplace no matter how much girl power stuffs you try to promote

I kinda wanted to bring up your first post to me that commented how the shows I mentioned weren't bought only by men which I did not imply at all but you put those words in my mouth anyway. But since you're very quick to say Madoka and Bake were bought also by women but you don't seem to bring up Free is also bought by men and are ignoring that for this discussion Free is pretty popular with men so how can the sales here mean as much as you're trying to make it out to be if a good portion of the money is coming from otaku? How do you know women just didn't buy the DVDs and most of the BDs are from men? If you look at Brothers Conflict the DVDs outsell the BDs almost double, but for Free the BDs are ahead.. and for some otaku anime they don't even release DVDs anymore just BDs, so I'd say most of the BD sales are from otaku which kinda throws a little monkey wrench in the equation. What will you say if it turns out Free is more popular with otaku in the end than women? Laughing Isn't it kinda silly to go to war over this when the "enemy" is in your fortress already?
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5500
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:52 pm Reply with quote
It's not a "strawman" argument. Everything I said WAS brought up as a supposed argument to explain why there was no need for KyoAni to target the female audience. Everything from "women already have lots of stuff, they don't need anymore" to "I hope KyoAni bombs because they've betrayed me by doing this fujoshi show".

I'm also just going to roll my eyes and pretend you don't actually believe 15K of offended/betrayed male otaku went out and bought the Free! BD because they couldn't live without the extra goodies, most of which are drawings of half-naked men in gayish poses. Yes, many male have responded possitively to Free in these forums (which is great, it's actually a pretty neat show), but I don't think either of us can say that a vast amount of Japanese male otaku are digging this and that they're the primary buyers because that's just stupid.

BTW, UtaPri also sold more BDs than DVDs. I'm sure those were otaku too, jacking off to the idea of 6 men singing and dancing to please a piss-color-eyed girl.
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Jave



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:02 am Reply with quote
Given the amount of Gou hentai that exists I think we can safely assume plenty of otaku are into the series Laughing People would be fools to say Free is only being bought by women, a good amount of guys in Japan are buying it that's for sure Not sure how you want to translate that into the equation of women buying anime though. I might guess it'd only do 10K without men to help boost the sales if you look at what Brothers Conflict is pulling in.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5500
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:21 am Reply with quote
Sorry, now I'm convinced that 15 thousand males bought the Free! BD because the totally female oriented extras were indispensable for their existances (Gou merchandise, on KyoAni's part as a selling point, is basically non-existant). Also, because the idea that women who bought Free didn't necessarily buy Brothers Conflict is absolutetly unconceivable -they're both exactly the same shit after all!-, as we know all men who bought Bake also bought Vividred Op, which sold 70K in its first week amirite?



A must have for every otaku that will match perfectly with your Asuna dakimakura and your Hitagi poster. Laughing


Last edited by CrowLia on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1767
Location: South America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:29 am Reply with quote
Wasn't Japan a rental market and not a sell through market like the US? I am living in the US now I am noticed that people here usually buy movies while in my home country nobody does that, they rented all the stuff they watched (besides downloading).

In Japan Blu Rays are extremely expensive but most people there don't buy blu rays they rent it. So this discussion wheter men or woman buy blu ray's is not very meaningful, as it's blu ray rental store owners that buy many of the blu rays sold there. I think this is specially valid in the case of TV anime, movies sell much more: EVA 2.0 sold over 800,000 blu ray and dvds, 3.0 is also selling at the hundreds of thousands, so the proportion of movies that is purchased by the final consumer also is probably much higher. Still, compared to the US, in Japan even the highest selling movies sell less in proportion to the population: Spirited Away sold less Blu ray DVDs per capita than Avatar did in the US but the Japanese watch as much TV as the American, it's just that it's a quite different market.

An impressive statistic is that's expected given that anime sales in terms of DVDs in Japan were actually lower than in the US in 2006: anime sales were around 100-110 billion yen and anime DVDs are sold for around 4,000 - 5,000 yen while in the US dvd's are around 15-20 dollars ( thus around 20-25 million unis in Japan versus 30-40 million unis in the US), but it's obvious that Japan watches much more anime than the US (in terms of proportion, in 2006 anime sales were 35% of their total DVD sales and in the US they were 2%).

Does anybody has any statistics regarding the proportion of blu ray sold for rentals and sold for final consumers? That would be interesting and would shed some light on these patterns. Maybe the store owners buy blu rays in expectation of their female/male demand for the anime.
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Jave



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:52 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Sorry, now I'm convinced that 15 thousand males bought the Free! BD because the totally female oriented extras were indispensable for their existances (Gou merchandise, on KyoAni's part as a selling point, is basically non-existant). Also, because the idea that women who bought Free didn't necessarily buy Brothers Conflict is absolutetly unconceivable -they're both exactly the same shit after all!-, as we know all men who bought Bake also bought Vividred Op, which sold 70K in its first week amirite?


Someone's getting a bit upset it seems Razz Want me to link to the current 1000 post thread for the last episode of Free on 2channel or is that still not good enough to show you that otaku are into the show? Me thinks you're not actually interested in a debate so much as you're into proving your own preconceptions correct and are ignoring any evidence that proves them wrong. Does seem a bit funny you're trying to turn Free into a girls-only-show in the same topic you're crying out against sexism though Laughing And if you think some pretty boys are going to deter otaku from buying something you clearly don't know the Japanese market very well. There's lots o sausage fest shows that do well with men.

Jose Cruz wrote:
Wasn't Japan a rental market and not a sell through market like the US? I am living in the US now I am noticed that people here usually buy movies while in my home country nobody does that, they rented all the stuff they watched (besides downloading).


Yep yep, your average Japanese citizen is into rentals more than buying.. then again we love Netflix so it's not too different form us. Razz Buying home video releases is definitely not the norm in Japan though and is reserved for the more hardcore fans cause of how expensive they are and limited living space not allowing for much crap in your home. For anime though buying those expensive home releases are kinda the life blood of the industry and determines successes and failures
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5500
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:29 am Reply with quote
Sure, make me into the bad guy here, since this has everything to do with my feminazi prejudices and nothing with you trying to say "Well, it's not a success because it doesn't sell like Bake", and when that was countered "Well, even if it's a success, it's not because women buy anime, it's just that otaku are buying it", which all goes back again to "women don't buy anime so no need to make anime for them". If you actually cared to read instead of spouting crap through your fingers you'd realize that I never said men aren't buying this. But to say that men are the main buyers of this show and the ones making it a sales hit is the stupidest argument I've read this month.

And yes, I do get upset at people who want to shove their 19th century sexist preconceptions down my throat, sorry for not submitting to your "women don't have buying power" with a flourished bow.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 705
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:52 am Reply with quote
Why is it we need to give men the credit for making Free a success without going into exactly how many women must have bought Bakemonogatari or Madoka? Madoka especially was relatively popular with women, so I'm just going to arbitrarily give them half the credit! That's how this works, right?

The point isn't "who buys what" exactly, the point is that a show aimed at women did an incredible amount of sales. It doesn't matter if half those sales were men, because they don't count as part of the demographics this time. Too bad, so sad, get over it.

Jen Bigby wrote:
kinda like how women buy more DVDs while men buy BDs which are reflective in the sales here and in other shows like Tiger & Bunny that have a decent number of DVD copies sold.


You do realize that T&B's DVD to BD ratio was lower than most major series, right? It was around 8%. Even stuff like Madoka (15%) and Infinite Stratos (27%) had higher ratios than that. Not to mention Bakemonogatari (31%).

I guess we know the true gender behind the fans that pumped out all that Barnaby/Kotetsu doujinshi! What a shocking twist! Thank you, based male otaku!
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:10 am Reply with quote
Women buying DVDs more than BDs is a trend, not a rule. And its rapidly converging with male otaku buying habits anyway.

This entire argument is ridiculous for the reasons musouka listed.

Yes, I'm sure some guys bought Free! This is completely beside the point.
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ashura zoldyck



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:28 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Sorry, now I'm convinced that 15 thousand males bought the Free! BD because the totally female oriented extras were indispensable for their existances (Gou merchandise, on KyoAni's part as a selling point, is basically non-existant). Also, because the idea that women who bought Free didn't necessarily buy Brothers Conflict is absolutetly unconceivable -they're both exactly the same shit after all!-, as we know all men who bought Bake also bought Vividred Op, which sold 70K in its first week amirite?



A must have for every otaku that will match perfectly with your Asuna dakimakura and your Hitagi poster. Laughing


what if alot of gay males bought it? ever thought about that?
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Mugley



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:07 pm Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
The point isn't "who buys what" exactly, the point is that a show aimed at women did an incredible amount of sales. It doesn't matter if half those sales were men, because they don't count as part of the demographics this time. Too bad, so sad, get over it.


Doesn't it when you're saying a show selling well is a sign of 'buying power' though? You kinda have think what it means when your prime example of girl power was supported by a bunch of men behind them. Jave's avatar is kinda fitting for this discussion. If My Little Pony is the only American kids show aimed at girls that got big, while Barbie, Little's Pet Shop, and Pound Puppies's cartoons are all still unpopular and unheard of, and it's only big because of the male brony fandom can you really call that a victory for females? For here, if Free sells well because male otaku are loving it and watching it and buying it does it still count as girl buying power or whatever?

By the way do we even know if Free is aimed at women? People are assuming show but was it ever called shoujo or josei? It could be a seinen or shonen. Kuroko is a shonen and Hetalia is a seinen despite both shows being big with girls they're still technically guy shows. Usually otome game adaptions are obviously aimed at girls but for all we know Free could be a seinen show like all of KyoAni's other stuff which would be kinda interesting to the discussion.
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