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NEWS: ADV Films, Geneon USA's Distribution Deal Cancelled


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.hacker



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:07 pm Reply with quote
I have a dumb question to ask, but according to:

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-09-21/dentsu-adv-films-confirm-withdrawal-of-geneon-deal

the article states at the end that "From October 1, 2007, Geneon USA will focus mainly on management of its works portfolio." What does that mean? Does it mean it will continue to work on its titles, or something else?
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:22 pm Reply with quote
.hacker wrote:
I have a dumb question to ask, but according to:

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-09-21/dentsu-adv-films-confirm-withdrawal-of-geneon-deal

the article states at the end that "From October 1, 2007, Geneon USA will focus mainly on management of its works portfolio." What does that mean? Does it mean it will continue to work on its titles, or something else?


It's basically saying that, for no other reason than to instil confidence that they are not shutting down or going away in the press release. But other than that it means absolutely nothing. So really it doesn't even really mean that. It's just an empty statement that could be, or could not be true.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 656
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:35 pm Reply with quote
[quote="CCSYueh"]
Xanas wrote:

Frankly, if they want to bring over all the harem titles I've been longing for, I'll gladly accept sub-only releases.


Yeah, except that very few people want to buy a DVD that looks like a glorified VHS, if you know what I'm trying to say.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:52 pm Reply with quote
Swissman wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
When it comes to any new media, or format to play it on the UK always finds itself at least 10 years behind you yanks. So we here in the UK had very little anime legally available by only a very few distributors who mostly only had total crap hentai, or titles that were crap regardless of what they were. Pioneer had the few good ones like Tenchi Muyo, El Hazard, Sailor Moon, and a few others that I can't remember now,

Pioneer weren't the only ones putting out good anime in those days. Don't forget Manga Video for at least following releases:

----> Akira (1991)
----> Project A-ko (1993)
----> Patlabor movies (1995)
----> Wings of Honneamise (1995)
----> Ghost in the Shell (1996)

Anime Projects limited had some gems from the Animeigo catalogue: Urusei Yatsura TV & movies (minus oavs) 1993-95; Otaku no Video (1995? Forgot the year...); Bubblegum Crisis (around 1993-94).

Kiseki had at least two gems in their catalogue: Gunbuster (1994), Macross - Do you remember love? (1995)....
I did say "mostly". Yeah they had some gems in the dirt, but they were mostly subbed only and all VHS. Also some would be hard pressed to regard "Macross-Do you remember love" as a "gem" If you put all the titles together in one shop they wouldn't take up much space on a shelf. And out of all those only ADV, and MVM still remain in business, though Kiseki became Revelation Films and only just recently have become a major distributor again since they took over Funimations UK distribution. Before that they had only two old hentai tiles to their whole catalogue and they still call it "Japanese animation" You forgot MVM, and ADV. Wink
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Zen_Fool wrote:
Bollocks
So by your logic you would call the rep at Pioneer a liar because he wouldn't supply "hard evidence"? They pulled out of the UK what other evidence do you need? I guess one could logically assume that they left simply because they didn't like British weather, or Brits in general, even though they were actually making a profit. Yeah that's logical. Rolling Eyes
As for renters, one could logically assume that the "general public" could include fans as well that haven't already seen those titles via downloads. Like me. Logically I got the feeling I was the only one in the country by their response, and as for just one forum, well it's a small island with an even smaller fandom then. Please don't hold that against us. We have grown exponentially since those dark days.Wink


Last edited by Mohawk52 on Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

Just like the contents of my bank account are none of your business, the details of exactly what kind of sales these privately-held companies are doing is also none of your business. Being curious is one thing, but being nosy is another.


Yes I understand this point, but the problem is if someone were trying to make the point that certain activies do/do not affect them it's really important to provide this information. If I am telling you that I need your money, I should be able to tell you why (why I'm in debt, what I did wrong and why I'm asking for you to help bail me out). In the defense of the companies I haven't seen a lot of claims made directly by them about this situation. In any case basically it's impossible to make an argument because the numbers aren't public. I guess we'll all have to stick to our anecdotes, mine of those who buy because of freely available sources, and others who claim that there are a majority of fansub downloaders who would otherwise be purchasing what they download.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:32 pm Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
Zac wrote:

Just like the contents of my bank account are none of your business, the details of exactly what kind of sales these privately-held companies are doing is also none of your business. Being curious is one thing, but being nosy is another.


Yes I understand this point, but the problem is if someone were trying to make the point that certain activies do/do not affect them it's really important to provide this information. If I am telling you that I need your money, I should be able to tell you why (why I'm in debt, what I did wrong and why I'm asking for you to help bail me out). In the defense of the companies I haven't seen a lot of claims made directly by them about this situation. In any case basically it's impossible to make an argument because the numbers aren't public. I guess we'll all have to stick to our anecdotes, mine of those who buy because of freely available sources, and others who claim that there are a majority of fansub downloaders who would otherwise be purchasing what they download.
Even shareholders only get the positive angle of sales figures and those are usually a total gross figure, nothing in detail. Last I looked at those reports Geneon wasn't asking anyone to "bail them out" just that that deal fell through. All shall be revealed that needs to be revealed in due time.
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Siegel Clyne



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 200
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:10 pm Reply with quote
Japanese fans can obtain sales rankings and scanned sales figures of DVDs from Oricon, Japan's counterpart of the US's Nielsen, through various channels, such as websites (e.g., ORICON STYLE, goo), ORICON STYLE magazine, maybe once in a while a magazine like Animedia ... and Japan's huge 2ch forums, probably the world's largest.

One or more reliable sources at 2ch regularly or semi-regularly post sales rankings and sales numbers of animation DVDs, Japanese and non-Japanese, based on data from Oricon.

A reliable source who posts daily on animation DVD sales [in Japan] threads at 2ch, on more than one occasion, has described in detail how and where he (I am assuming that it is a he) obtains his facts and figures concerning scanned DVD sales from Oricon. Others are free to verify his usually very thorough information. He mentioned, among other things, subscribing to one or more services from Oricon. He is considered a "god" of animation DVD sales information by fellow 2ch posters, who ruthlessly root out fakes who post phony information, a common occurrence on 2ch's anonymous message boards.

Big Japanese companies like NAMCO BANDAI Holdings Inc. and TOEI ANIMATION CO., LTD publish annual character sales figures and annual copyright income sales figures, respectively, on their official websites.

I have posted links to, and scans of, Namco Bandai character sales figures and Toei Animation copyright income sales figures in numerous posts on other English language forums. Due to ANN policy, I cannot post links to many of these posts. But you can still search for them on Google, etc.

----------

Top 10 Animation (Anime) Series DVD Sales Figures Ranking in Japan For 2005 - Oricon Examination, Animedia Magazine, February 2006

01. Kidou Senshi Gundam SEED DESTINY (Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY)
[Volumes 1-10]
645,512 Copies Sold
[64,551 Copies Sold Per Volume]

02. AIR
[Volumes 1-6 + SUMMER + MEMORIES]
174,299 Copies Sold
[21,787 Copies Sold Per Volume]

03. Initial D Fourth Stage
146,024 Copies Sold

04. BLEACH
[BLEACH Soul Society Shinigami Daikou-hen Volumes 1-5, BLEACH Soul Society Sennyuu-hen Volumes 1-5]
126,429 Copies Sold
[12,643 Copies Sold Per Volume]

05. Mahou Sensei Negima! [Negima]
[Volumes 1-6]
103,661 Copies Sold
[17,277 Copies Sold Per Volume]

06. Dragon Ball Z
[Volumes 1-6]
99,576 Copies Sold
[16,596 Copies Sold Per Volume]

07. Mai-HiME (My-HiME)
[Volumes 1-9]
98,025 Copies Sold
[10,892 Copies Sold Per Volume]

08. Koukaku Kidoutai STAND ALONE COMPLEX (Ghost in the Shell S.A.C.)
88,865 Copies Sold

09. Keroro Gunsou (Sergeant Frog)
85,077 Copies Sold

10. Aa! Megamisama! (Ah! My Goddess) [Volumes 1-8]
78,681 Copies Sold
[9,835 Copies Sold Per Volume]

Studio Ghibli and Disney animation DVD sales are excluded.

(American television animation series usually fail to sell on DVD in Japan.)

----------

Top 20 Television Animation (Anime) DVD Sales Figures Ranking in Japan for 2006

Television Animation DVD Sales Figures Ranking in 2006 (2006/01/02 - 2006/12/04 {January 2, 2006 - December 4, 2006})

01. DRAGON BALL Z
(Volumes 7-39)
568,216 Copies Sold
[17,219 Copies Sold Per Volume]

02. Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY
(Volumes 11-13, Special Edition Volumes 1-3)
339,610 Copies Sold
[56,602 Copies Sold Per Volume]

03. Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
(Limited Edition Volumes 00-5, Regular Edition Volumes 2, 4)
225,293 Copies Sold
[37,549 Copies Sold Per Volume]

04. Fate/stay night
(Volumes 1-7 + Volume 8 Limited Edition)
194,973 Copies Sold
[24,372 Copies Sold Per Volume]

05. BLEACH
(BLEACH Soul Society Kyuushutsu-hen Volumes 1-5, BLEACH Baunt-hen {Bount-hen} Volumes 1-6)
108,181 Copies Sold
[9,835 Copies Sold Per Volume]

06. ARIA
(ARIA The ANIMATION Volumes 1-6, ARIA The NATURAL Volumes 1-5)
100,334 Copies Sold
[9,121 Copies Sold Per Volume]

07. NANA
(Volumes 1-5)
88,456 Copies Sold
[17,691 Copies Sold Per Volume]
Note: NANA Volume 1 sold around 60,000 copies; for nearly three months after its release in Japan, the retail price was only 707 yen (less than US$7), presumably after the number of the apartment the two Nana's co-rented, 707 (Nana-Zero-Nana in Japanese).

08. Shakugan no Shana
(Volumes 1-8)
81,011 Copies Sold
[10,126 Copies Sold Per Volume]

09. Mai-OtoHiME (Mai-Otome; My-Otome; Mai-ZHiME; My-ZHiME)
(Volumes 1-9)
78,017 Copies Sold
[8,669 Copies Sold Per Volume]

10. Gintama
(Volumes 1-5)
76,528 Copies Sold
[15,306 Copies Sold Per Volume]

11. BLOOD+
(Volumes 1-12)
72,221 Copies Sold
6,018 Copies Sold Per Volume

12. Initial D Fourth Stage
(Volumes 10-12)
66,627 Copies Sold
[22,209 Copies Sold Per Volume]

13. Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha A's (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's)
(Volumes 1-6)
64,903 Copies Sold
[10,817 Copies Sold Per Volume]

14. Eureka 7
(Regular Edition Volumes 6-13, UMD Volumes 8-13)
60,631 Copies Sold
[7,579 Copies Sold Per Volume]

15. Rozen Maiden Träumend
(Volumes 1-6)
55,712 Copies Sold
[9,285 Copies Sold Per Volume]

16. Keroro Gunsou (Sergeant Frog)
(2nd Season Volumes 4-13, 3rd Season Volumes 1-2)
54,762 Copies Sold
[4,564 Copies Sold Per Volume]

17. Hachimitsu to Clover (Honey and Clover)
(Volumes 5-9, II Volumes 1-2)
54,116 Copies Sold
[7,731 Copies Sold Per Volume]

18. SHUFFLE!
(Volumes 3-12)
53,263 Copies Sold
[5,326 Copies Sold Per Volume]

19. Pani Poni Dash!
(Volumes 2-7)
48,038 Copies Sold
[8,006 Copies Sold Per Volume]

20. Mushishi
(Volumes 1-5)
46,830 Copies Sold
[9,366 Copies Sold Per Volume]

----------

Animation Titles on the Top 100 DVD Bestsellers List in Japan During 2006 (Oricon)

2006 DVD TOP 100
(Aggregate Period: 2005/12/05 - 2006/12/18)

Ranking | Estimated Cumulative Sales | Highest Ranking During Period | Title | Release Date

**5 | 483,556 | *2 | Howl's Moving Castle | 2005/11/16

*13 | 283,424 | *1 | Cars | 2006/11/08

*26 | 155,179 | *3 | Chicken Little | 2006/04/28

*27 | 150,753 | *2 | Tim Burton's Corpse Bride | 2006/03/03

*29 | 145,595 | *1 | Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam II -Koibitotachi- | 2006/02/24

*31 | 139,873 | *1 | Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam III -Hoshi no Kodou wa Ai- | 2006/08/25

*35 | 130,709 | *4 | Madagascar Special Edition | 2005/12/02

*41 | 120,189 | 16 | My Neighbor Totoro | 2001/09/28

*51 | 105,067 | *3 | Madagascar Premium Edition with "Penguin Christmas Caper" Disc | 2005/12/02

*52 | 103,624 | *5 | Robots Special Edition | 2005/12/16

*60 | *95,544 | *2 | Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY Vol. 13 | 2006/02/24

*64 | *90,079 | *2 | Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa [Perfect Limited Edition] | 2006/01/25

*70 | *81,840 | *4 | Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa | 2006/01/25

*76 | *78,699 | *1 | The Little Mermaid Platinum Edition | 2006/10/04

*82 | *74,745 | *4 | Arashi no Yoru ni Standard Edition | 2006/06/23

*92 | *68,828 | *2 | Brave Story (1-Disc Set) | 2006/11/23

*95 | *67,052 | *4 | Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY Vol. 11 | 2005/12/23

*99 | *64,745 | *3 | Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY Vol. 12 | 2006/01/27

100 | *64,059 | *4 | The Little Mermaid | 2006/10/04

Mobile Suit Gundam Seed Destiny was the only television animation series to have single DVDs crack the list of the top 100 bestselling DVDs in Japan during 2006.

The regular edition of Howl's Moving Castle (Howl no Ugoku Shiro) sold something like nearly 800,000 copies during its first two weeks of release in Japan back during late 2005, which do not count in DVD sales figures in Japan during 2006. According to the ORICON STYLE website, the regular edition of Howl's Moving Castle sold 708,000 copies alone during its first week of release in Japan.

----------

Oricon DVD sales figures in Japan for the week of Monday, January 29, 2007 to Sunday, February 4, 2007 show that:

1) My Neighbor Totoro (Tonari no Totoro), from director Hayao Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli (September 28, 2001 release), sold 1,385 copies during the week - for a total of 703,816 copies sold.

2) Spirited Away (Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi), from director Hayao Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli (July 19, 2002 release), sold 1,272 copies during the week - for a total of 2,276,909 copies sold.

Spirited Away is, by a substantial margin, the bestselling DVD in Japan ever.

According to Video Research Ltd.'s Top 30 Most Watched Television Programs During 2003 in the Kantou Region of Japan (Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, Saitama, Chiba, etc.), the television broadcast debut of Spirited Away on NTV (Nippon Television Network), Friday, January 24, 2003, 20:30-23:09 (8:30pm-11:09pm), finished at No. 1, scoring an average television household audience rating of 46.9% - the highest recorded by any movie in history, and the highest recorded by any animation in history.

Spirited Away is the highest grossing film of all time at the Japanese box office.


Last edited by Siegel Clyne on Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:50 am; edited 11 times in total
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:46 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
IKillChicken-
Sorry if it seems I picked on you, but it seems there are a lot of people out there thruout this pointing to Geneon's titles (PARTICULARLY the harem titles aimed at us gals) as a reason for their problems, but they do have good titles. Guys may not have any interest in the harem titles, but they must have sold somewhat because Geneon dropped their major male harem title (Tenchi), but has pursued the gal line (Fushigi Yugi, Saiyuki, Kyo Kara Maoh, Shonen Onmyoji, Saiunkoku).


Well, you really shouldn't put one specific persons name in your post if you're making a general statement about things alot of people are saying.

Also, I wont argue that those titles are "bad" but I still think they have limited appeal. I mean, like you said, theyre aimed at girls. Not to discredit the size of the famale fanbase, but I think its pretty well accepted that the female fanbase tends to be more Manga focused and less Anime focused.


Mohawk52 wrote:
Zen_Fool wrote:
Bollocks
So by your logic you would call the rep at Pioneer a liar because he wouldn't supply "hard evidence"? They pulled out of the UK what other evidence do you need?


Its not that he wouldnt supply evidence, its that he had none. They know that their sales were poor. They have no proof that downloads are to blame. Infact, I find it awfully sour grapes of him considering he's basically saying: "Our stuff isnt selling well, so it must be because you jerks are all downloading it for free." Just as in this situation with Geneon, it could just as much be the fault of the company.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:03 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Its not that he wouldnt supply evidence, its that he had none. They know that their sales were poor. They have no proof that downloads are to blame. Infact, I find it awfully sour grapes of him considering he's basically saying: "Our stuff isnt selling well, so it must be because you jerks are all downloading it for free." Just as in this situation with Geneon, it could just as much be the fault of the company.
Did I mention that Geneon use to be Pioneer? And do you think that maybe their UK office had a PC connected to the intarweb back then as well? Maybe even lurking on that same anime forum as me? Naa, they couldn't have been so clever as that, no way. Wink
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:14 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

Its not that he wouldnt supply evidence, its that he had none. They know that their sales were poor. They have no proof that downloads are to blame. Infact, I find it awfully sour grapes of him considering he's basically saying: "Our stuff isnt selling well, so it must be because you jerks are all downloading it for free." Just as in this situation with Geneon, it could just as much be the fault of the company.


Man, some of you people are just committed to making sure nobody thinks fansub downloads are hurting the industry.

Let's have an imaginary conversation, shall we?

Geneon Sales Rep: "Sir, the first volume of When They Cry sold 1500 copies in its first month."

Geneon Sales Executive: "Huh well that seems really low."

Geneon Sales Rep: "40,000 people downloaded the entire show for free 6 months before the DVD came out."

Geneon Sales Executive: "Hm, well, that obviously has nothing to do with why our sales are so low."

Come on, people. You want to be contrary and split hairs and dance around the extremely obvious and make all kinds of excuses, but none of it makes sense.

No there really is no ABSOLUTE SOLID DATA evidence here but what you're doing is seeing smoke and INSISTING there is no fire.
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starcade



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:17 pm Reply with quote
xstylus wrote:
Xanas wrote:

Doing without is an understandable answer when talking about physical things. The reason for this is taking something deprives someone else. But copying something deprives no one.

WRONG. You have deprived these creators of their TIME.

They spent a great degree of TIME and RESOURCES making their creation. They expected something for it, otherwise they would have spent their time working at a factory instead. I'm sure they'd love to create free art if they had that luxury, but they have mouths to feed. If their art can't sustain them because people like you refuse to pay for their efforts, then that artist will choose to no longer be an artist.

If you'd like to know what that feels like, instead of going to work why don't you try sit in a corner and twiddling your thumbs for 8 hours a day for a few months. Then try devising a way to pay your bills.


The fact that a lot of these people don't realize (and I think are just now doing, on both sides of the Pacific) is that the market that exists now (such that any market exists now) is piracy-driven.

Fansubs get a lot of people into the market (they certainly get most of the people, be it at cons or in clubs, beyond the 4Kids crap...).

(The person then quoted this from someone else:)

xstylus wrote:

jsevakis wrote:

There are still some hits, but according to the various reports I've read, absolutely nothing moves like it did in the 90's and early 2000's. (In one interview, Carl Macek, formerly of Streamline, noted that todays' average anime release does about 10% of the sales he got in the VHS days. I think that's an exaggeration, but not by much.) Many titles today move less than 3000 copies, which is not even enough to make back dubbing expenses. Some sell less than 1000. A few, less than 500.

So back in the day when anime was still an itty bitty niche hobby, it still sold exponentially better than it did today, eh? But we'll call that an "exaggeration" for a moment. Let's focus on the "many titles today move less than 3,000 copies" quote.

I went to anime****.com and looked up "Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei". Episode 7 was just freshly put up there today. It already has 3,801 downloads. That's an entire DVD's print run in ONE FRICKING DAY.

Aww, what the heck. I recall reading a post from John Sirabella a few months back that placed the number at around 10,000 copies for a real hit, so I'll be a sport and use that figure.

Let's look at an older one. Umisho 7, which was put up there the beginning of the month. It has 22,303 downloads as of now. Episode 1 has 43,177 downloads.

Sorry, I suck at math. Can you crunch those numbers for me, pretty please? Does 43,177 vastly outnumber 10,000? I'm pretty sure it vastly outnumbers 3,000, but perhaps you know a new kind of math that makes it all better.

Last I checked, any of these companies would be creaming their shorts if ANYTHING sold even half of that number.

As for the industry watching the fansub community, that's a mixed bag. I can buy the notion that the US companies use the fansub community to determine what would be popular here. Unfortunately, so do the Japanese companies.


If they really did, there'd be nowhere near the number of releases there are now, since there's no real market for anime anymore -- at least no sales-based market.

People are looking at 40K for AX and 22K for Otakon and 15K for AKon and they think people want to buy anime -- but the facts don't bear that out.

xstylus wrote:

When they see huge numbers of people downloading a fansub, it's impossible to calculate how many of those will be "paying" customers versus otherwise. Thus, fansub downloaders are a further poison to the market not just in terms of sales, but also in terms of market demographics.


And this is what happens as a result. That's why I said in the other part of this thread: Eradicate fansubs, and you eradicate North American anime.

That's the 600 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to admit. THERE'S NO SALES-DRIVEN MARKET FOR ANIME IN NORTH AMERICA.

It's that damn simple -- and once people get that, something is going to have to be done.

xstylus wrote:

If it were possible to simply erase the non-buying fanbase out of the hobby entirely and devise a figure of who's left, I believe licensing fees would drop accordingly because they'd realize just how small the real market (read: the PAYING market) actually is. Unfortunately, that's like trying to scoop piss out of a pool.


Or like water out of a pool of piss. That's the problem.

Take out fansubbing, and the fans, in waves (first the FU to the industry types, then the ones squeezed out when the prices HAVE TO go up, etc.), leave.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:19 pm Reply with quote
starcade wrote:

That's the 600 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to admit. THERE'S NO SALES-DRIVEN MARKET FOR ANIME IN NORTH AMERICA.


Then otherwise companies like ADV and Funimation wouldn't be in business. Please PLEASE stop with this sky-is-falling doomsday crap. You're not an industry insider, you don't have any special information, you're in absolutely no position to be making these bold proclamations as though they're fact.

Knock it off. Yeesh, I swear, anime fans do more armchair business analysis than any other group of people out there.
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starcade



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:24 pm Reply with quote
xstylus wrote:

Convention attendance growth continues to increase even WITH the increasing number of conventions themselves. This proves that the audience for anime is growing and is still growing, and yet sales of anime keep falling. Holy A.T. fields, Batman! How is this possible? Quite easily and obviously, kids. Let's say it together: Fansubs are the cause of decreasing sales.


No. Fansubs are the cause of there being a substantive anime fanbase in America.

Until and if that can change, the companies are in trouble, because they are assuming people who are attending cons are buying the product, when the only product they MIGHT be buying is the subsidiary product (swag) and not the DVDs themselves.
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:27 pm Reply with quote
starcade wrote:
Fansubs get a lot of people into the market (they certainly get most of the people, be it at cons or in clubs, beyond the 4Kids crap...)
Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. If anything, fansubs don't get ANYONE into the market. If you are completely ignorant of anime, how are you going to suddenly see a fansub out of nowhere? You have to download one, and thus have to be aware of anime and fansubs, in order to watch them.

Also, people who aren't "in" the anime market don't go to anime cons. It's only the biggest of anime otaku who usually populate the cons. Casual enjoyers of anime who only buy a little AND only watch a little rarely go to cons.

When you are completely unknowledgeable of anime it is gonna be primarily 4Kids cartoons and whatever else is showing for free on Cartoon Network that will get you interested first. Beyond that, a friend who buys a reasonable amount of anime DVDs might also get you interested and into the anime market.

A friend who pirates all his anime and is a heavily fansub downloader who gets you into the market "his way" is probably gonna cause you to behave the same way. In which case you become an anime "fan" who is not actually in the anime market (since you watch fansubs too and don't buy anything yourself).

I might agree that fansubs used to get people into anime at anime clubs back when there was hardly any anime on TV and back when fansubs were spread around on VHS tapes. But nowdays, this can't be farther from the truth. Anime downloads are so rampant these days that if you are introduced to anime via others who download, it's likely that you will be encouraged to do so as well.


Last edited by Porcupine on Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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