Forum - View topicEvangelion - thoughts and discussions.
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space clam
Posts: 636 |
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First off, to tackle the issue of SEELE. It has eleven members.(black monoliths) No correlation there. "The whore of Bablyon" refers to the actual city of Babylon, characterized as the city of the devil. "Whore" is simply a derogatory description here. The beast is Satan, described as a "great red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."(Rev. 12:3) Revelation 13:1 also describes the beast rising out of the sea, having seven heads, ten horns, and ten crowns on the horns. As for percentages of people being slain, the fourth Horseman (pale horse) kills one-fourth the population. (Rev. 6:8) The four angels of the Euphrates lead an army of 200 million and slay another third with fire, smoke, and brimstone. (Rev. 9:16,18) An indeterminate amount die when an angel with a sickle reaps the earth, causing a river of blood to flow about 5 feet deep and 1600 furlongs wide.* The only correlation which may be drawn to Second Impact (the fraction of people dying) is the Rapture of believers, whereby Christians are instantly taken to heaven "in the blink of an eye" before the Tribulation. I can certainly see how this apocalyptic anime of Evagelion may be confused with some of the events prophesied in Revelation. I'm not trying to be a "holier-than-thou," just trying to clarify some misconceptions. *This may or may not be caused by slaying people. It may just be blood such as numerous instances where major systems of water are turned to blood. |
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kamiboy
 Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Maa, maa. I guess revelations weren’t used in Evangelion after all. I guess I just wanted some of it to be in there since it is by far my favourite part of the bible. Certainly it would have been appropriate had they used it. I mean there are some obvious hints as to a link between Shinji and, the Christian saviour, Jesus in the movie. He is portrayed as a kind of saviour and is stigmatised, if not more. What do you think of that theory? |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I know this may appear to be disallowed post bumping, but I remember reading here before that the official threads never go out of date. I assumed this one didn't either, since it was found in the series discussion thread directory ('Teh List'). I certainly hope, therefore, that I am breaking no rules. After all, I don't wish to simply create more clutter by starting another thread if I don't have to.
I have several points I'd like to touch on that are on my mind at the moment, if that's alright. The first comes from the DVD commentary track for the Death & Rebirth film. It's mentioned that one Japanese fan believed that the relationship of Asuka and Shinji is somehow tied to the Fall of the Walls of Jericho. I was wondering if anyone else had input on this situation. I suppose I could see it as a broad metaphor, but Shinji doesn't seem to be the main point of her downfall to me. However, I know many other fans have made broad references to her having a personal Wall of Jericho. At the end of the original series, the scenes of 'what could be' with Shinji's life are, of course, quite different. To me, though, they seem to almost play with the idea of taking Shinji and literally placing him into a different anime series. Was this intentional? It almost seems as though he was removed from a mecha series, and placed into a slice-of-life school comedy. The animated sight gag of him running into another character really plays this up to me, and seems to be in a style of animation not seen elsewhere in the series. While I realize that Central Dogma is one of the many places at NERV Headquarters to be named for a biological reference, it seems particularly important that this name was chosen. The idea of NERV being a 'Central Dogma' for the New Genesis Event for mankind seems to be an eerily fitting concept. This is especially true when the idea of Gendo Ikari as a god-like figure is taken into account. Interestingly enough, Francis Crick really didn't put much thought into the original name of Central Dogma, in real life. I've given a lot of thought to the idea that the Lance of Longinus was lost. It almost seems as though the idea of a Holy Lance being lost is prophetic of the Human Instrumentality becoming corrupt at that moment. However, at the same time, I can't imagine that anything good could ever have come from Instrumentality. After all, I've read many descriptions that explain it as a metaphor for growing up - as you leave childhood, you're driven into a specific mold on how to behave. The 'new series of Eva units' seem to take the form of birds. Does this have anything to do with the fact that avian forms are one of the important depictions of souls from the Chamber of Guf? Thank you! |
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Nerv1
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Concerning the commentary for Death and Rebirth, do not listen/believe in what they have to say. The people who dubbed it have absolutely no idea what is going on in the series at all and becomes extremely evident in End of Eva's commentary of evil(Greenfield's explanations on the platinum dvds are no better and it made me want to strangle him).
As for the relationship of Shinji and Asuka, spoiler[there is no religious allusion, its just showing how people wracked with depression and other disorders do not have the ability to convey their feelings normally. Its pretty evident throughout that they do have feelings for each other, but since their personalities are so outta wack, they have trouble confessing to each other throughout the series causing them to break down even further as the show progresses on. But if you look at the last scene of End of Eva, their return from Instrumentality showed that they got over their depression and accepted their feelings for each other(even though it is a bit hidden).] The tv ending showing Shinji in a different reality spoiler[was just to show him that he should value his life, the world only seems to be a horrible place because he perceives it that way and to show that he could be happy anywhere if he actually tried.] As for the Lance, spoiler[it was revealed in supplemental material that there was 2 one that came with adam from the white moon and lilith from the black moon. The purpose of the Lance was so people could subdue them in the future if their jobs of spreading life was compromised.] As for other explanations, you can visit the [url]evageeks.com[/url] wiki as it has accurate explanations of things that might confuse you |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I thought a few of the things they said in the commentary sounded strange, but that usually had more to do with the history of things. In real life I'm an archaeology student, so I take a special interest in the myth, legend and religious allusion aspects of the Neon Genesis Evangelion series. One of the things I thought was rather strange was that spoiler[they claimed that the Magi can't be logically connected to many things, based on the fact that we know so little about them. They went so far as to claim that most of the historical data on the Biblical Magi had been manufactured in the last 100 years. I felt that was a bit odd.]
When I was talking about Shinji and Asuka, I didn't mean to make it sound as though those were my own ideas. I was simply posing a question. In that same vein, spoiler[I was wondering what the Wall of Jericho symbolism has to do with Asuka, then. Even on that wiki you linked me to, the term is associated with her.] Ah, in regards to the Lance, spoiler[I was speaking most metaphysically. I meant in terms of the real life Longinus and how that played into the scene surrounding the loss of the Lance. Interestingly enough they actually use the term Spear of Longinus in at least one scene; I have always heard the object called the 'Holy Lance of Longinus' in historical texts.] Thank you! |
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Basilisk1991
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IF their is one word that summarizes the first series, it's (warning Profanity Imminent)spoiler[MINDFUCK] the new series compress's the old and look great doing it (Just watch the trailers and you'll notice how grainy the 1rst one looked in comparison) I have not seen Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance yet, it adds a new character and changes some of the plot like spoiler[Asuka being the pilot of Bardiel], the first series ending was a bit dark (which I liked) and Rebuild of Evangelion is going swimmingly.
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Parsifal24
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Honestlly I just see the sereis Bildungsroman detailing Shinji's growth into adulthood and comeing to terms with his past and the problems in his life. I also personally think that his heart belongs to Rei even though he has somesort of "school boy crush" on Asuka Gendo's a complete monster.
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linkinstreet01
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Nerv1
Posts: 601 |
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It is fairly established in the show that Shinji and Asuka are the main couple if you pay close attention to their scenes and it becomes confirmed in the director's cuts episodes and End of Eva. Look here for more info http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Shinji_and_Asuka%27s_Relationship Last edited by Nerv1 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Parsifal24
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[quote="linkinstreet01Most of the spinoff series pairs them Shinji and Asuka together tho. Mostly due to them being the closest in terms of personal trouble, such as they both lost their mothers early and are piloting because they want others to look up to them. While not apparent in the rebuild, this was IMO one of the core theme of the original series[/quote]
Yeah most of the spin off seris but the orginal leaves it kind of up in the air I personally think the reasons Rei and Shinji would work out better is becuese there so simillar not to mention the whole orginal reason Shinji piolits Eva is so Rei wont have to . His first physical contact with a woman is with Rei the reason he comes back to Nerv after he runs away for two days and decides to piolt Eva unit one again it's so Rei wont be forced to. So while the spin off sereis might pair off Asuka and Shinji. The orginal sereis doesnt really come down one way or the other Rei just seems like the more logical choice given Shinji's personality. Last edited by Parsifal24 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nerv1
Posts: 601 |
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Yeah most of the spin off seris but the orginal leaves it kind of up in the air I personally think the reasons Rei and Shinji would work out better is becuese there so simillar not to mention the whole orginal reason Shinji piolits Eva is so Rei wont have to . His first physical contact with a woman is with Rei the reason he comes back to Nerv after he runs away for two days and decides to piolt Eva unit one again it's so Rei wont be forced to. So while the spin off sereis might pair off Asuka and Shinji the orginal sereis doesnt really come down one way or the other Rei just seems like the more logical choice given Shinji's personality.[/quote] You do know that Shinji distances himself from Rei after realizing that she is spoiler[a clone of his mother after episode 23 right?] It established that he has feelings for Asuka as he basically says spoiler["I love you" to her in End of Eva before 3rd impact] and spoiler[that they end up together at the movie's end.] The manga also confirms that he did not see Rei that way as he spoiler[said/thinks in the manga "What I feel for Ayanami, it doesn't go with words, like "like" and "want to go out with." It's as if she was something torn apart from me a long time ago.] So basically, yes he does care for her, but not in the way you think. |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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To me it certainly seemed that, spoiler[perhaps due to the cloned motherly aspects of Rei Ayanami], Shinji almost considered Rei to be a sort of sister. Perhaps, however, a different sort of familial relationship is implied. Am I not seeing something?
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Nerv1
Posts: 601 |
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it meant that she spoiler[reminded him of his mother as she is a clone of her] |
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Parsifal24
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I don't know I mean I don't want to pick a fight with anyone but I don't think it's a perfect one to one thing with Rei's cloning process it's not like they just threw spoiler[Yui's DNA and Angel DNA] in a blender and bam they came out with a perfect spoiler[one to one clone that was 50/50 parts Yui and Angel DNA ] see below link for a far better explanation and response to the spoiler["But she's his mother"] argument then I could probably give http://www.angelfire.com/anime4/shinjirei/reiwrong.html |
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vashna
Posts: 1313 |
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I hope that no one minds if I continue my thoughts on Evangelion. I've been giving some thought to the idea that NERV's headquarters complex is in the shape of a pyramid. Is that intended to convey anything? Pyramid Power is an obscure pseduo-scientific theory about the way in which pyramid structures are assumed to centralize myriad forces, and I wondered if this were some kind of reference. Either that, or the idea that NERV has 'risen' in the manner of a Pharaoh.
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