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1. How is Japan quickly rebuilding itself after Antartica blows up explainable? We saw what Tokyo looks like, so it's not like Japan was unaffected by the rising sea levels. Anno expects the audience to pay attention but not enough to notice that Antartica blowing up would cause the sky to be covered with dust, and at least see a massive lowering of temperature.
2. The problem is that just adding in an illuminati type group is lazy writing especially when you don't really give them a reason for what their doing. They exist simply because Anno needs a villain that runs everything, and gives Gendo funding.
3. I watch anime for entertainment, if you need to have pre-requisites for enjoying a non-sequel anime than your doing it wrong.
4. Kazuya Tsurumaki was the assistant Director, and is the Director the Rebuild of Evangelion movies, I think he knows what his talking about.
5. I never watched Rahxpeheon because I heard it was inspired by Evangelion.
6. Well most people didn't get Evangelion if the crazy discussions are a clue, such as people thinking that Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on Earth, or that Asuka is a combination of her, Rei and Misato, or the Barons of Hell rumor.

Speaking as a unrepentant fan of the series, I have to say I read the common criticisms, and feel they all miss the point as far as what moves me. So what if the plot leaves you scratching your head? So what if the Judaic and Christian symbolism is used purely for mood? Or if the series promises things it doesn't deliver?
What I love about NGE is its intensity, whether it's the active horror of the scene where Unit 1 spoiler[eats the angel], or the passive horror of how the characters feel the futility of their existence. The show takes some frightening human stuff and expresses in a mythic language that I at least find very resonant.
(And I like the pacing. Boredom and terror - very nihilistic) Very Happy

Charred Knight wrote:

How is Japan quickly rebuilding itself after Antartica blows up explainable?

That you are actually concerned with this and seem to consider a hypocritical negative on part of the show's staff is ridiculous past the point of being pedantic. Most science fiction developments are impractical -- is the Akira manga, revered for its astounding formal qualities and generally exciting storyline, suddenly EXPOSED because the war and consequent rebuilding of Japan seems too fast and convenient? God, I never thought I'd reference this site, but TV Tropes has an article on this.

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The problem is that just adding in an illuminati type group is lazy writing especially when you don't really give them a reason for what their doing. They exist simply because Anno needs a villain that runs everything, and gives Gendo funding.

You still have not answered my question: what good would giving them a motivation do? This is a genre piece, not some politically and socially exhaustive tale about authority. Are you going to tell me that Alfred Hitchcock was a hack because a lot of the plots and villains in his films are downright stupid (and famous for getting people familiar with the term MacGuffin)? I recall you holding Satoshi Kon in some notable respect (for making "mind-fudge" stories good or whatever). His villains can easily generalized, having weak motivations as far as character justifications go -- the same goes for his characters in general, really. But I don't really consider that as a negative for Paprika, because Kon, like Anno, produced sophisticated genre works.

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I watch anime for entertainment, if you need to have pre-requisites for enjoying a non-sequel anime than your doing it wrong.

"Film theory is stupid and you're stupid for knowing it." Zac has called out such reverse elitism a number of times before, and you're doing a swell job of putting yourself in with that group. Actually, you don't even have to know jack about film theory -- your comments are akin to saying, "The Dark Knight has allusions to a post-9/11 environment with America and its grappling with terrorism? That's dumb -- context means nothing. I watch it for ENTERTAINMENT, which can ONLY involve NOT THINKING what it implies but not says."

Quote:

Kazuya Tsurumaki was the assistant Director, and is the Director the Rebuild of Evangelion movies, I think he knows what his talking about.

Except I didn't say anything to the contrary. That you don't seem to understand how one may not fully understand someone's else intention throughout an entire project indicates that you aren't truly trying to understand my arguments.

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I never watched Rahxpeheon because I heard it was inspired by Evangelion.

Okay.

Quote:

Well most people didn't get Evangelion if the crazy discussions are a clue, such as people thinking that Shinji and Asuka are the last two people on Earth, or that Asuka is a combination of her, Rei and Misato, or the Barons of Hell rumor.

That's nice. And a number of people "got it" just fine. Arguing against a work because of someone's imagined majority of not understanding it is one of the weakest arguments you can make in criticism. Furthermore, what you listed are plot points -- what happened to "getting it" thematically? Isn't that what you were referring to earlier by people not "getting" Evangelion? You're shifting goal posts.

Some people treat Neon Genesis Evangelion as the second coming of Jesus while others believe it to be the 9,001st reiteration of trash. I'm inclined to say that it's somewhere in the middle because the sympathy I had for the characters was cancelled out by the questionable story direction. More thoughts below...

When looking at the name of this anime it leaves an impression of a show which will attempt to impress its viewers through thought-provoking themes. Successful as though Neon Genesis Evangelion’s endeavors at stimulating the mind are, the story direction invokes an equal amount of thought for less prestigious reasons. Neon Genesis Evangelion’s unconvincing narrative approach is especially egregious when compared with its well-characterized cast and its strong technical direction.

One of the reasons for questioning the storytelling quality of the series is the relatively weak beginning of the show. For the first seven episodes the main characters are the unassuming Shinji Ikari, the quiet Rei Ayanami, and the flirtatious Misato Katsuragi. Having two out of the three primary cast member’s personality being more subdued creates a monotonous start and is not the best way to gain the viewer’s interest. Of course a cast which lacks vitality would not be a problem in a brooding anime such as this one, were it not for the fact that the show’s mood for a third of the series contrasts greatly with the oppressive tone everywhere else in the work. Furthermore although brighter scenes can be used to create a false sense of security thereby increasing the magnitude of approaching drama, the less heavy moments of this show is concentrated toward the middle two-thirds of the series instead of the beginning or being distributed somewhat evenly throughout the rest of the work. Neon Genesis Evangelion cannot call itself a purely dark anime for the inclusion of many lighter scenes and the allocation of its less dramatic moments undermines their usage in regards to emphasizing the less optimistic events.

Still, Neon Genesis Evangelion must be praised for its excellent technical direction. Strictly speaking in an independent sense the music is not anything special but its strength is attributed more to how it is used; when the soundtrack during the fights is not representing the ever dangerous Angels through heavy and dramatic music it instead uses more upbeat fare. The audio dissonance for the show’s primary antagonists is very fitting considering the mythological origins by which the Angels of Neon Genesis Evangelion are derived from in real life. Just as a powerful being can be represented as a brutal entity focused on destroying, it can also be seen as a force capable of annihilation without showing a hint of effort or malice.

In a similar manner to the well-used music, the animation owes its value more to what is done with it rather than its actual quality. For example, when Shinji and Gendou meet for the first time in the series the former is on a bridge in front of Eva Unit 01’s jaws while the latter is on higher ground inside a windowed overlook behind the same Eva’s head with small monitors inside the room focusing on Shinji. The direction behind this scene is strong for four reasons: First, Gendou having the higher ground signifies his influence over the situation while Shinji being on the lower ground shows his powerlessness against fate. Second, the horn of Eva Unit 01 and the window of the upper alcove form a wall between Shinji and Gendou which shows their distanced and estranged relationship. Third, Shinji being in front of the Eva’s teeth demonstrates Gendou’s lack thereof guilt in putting his own son in harm’s way while being behind Eva Unit 01 shows his safety from danger. Finally, the monitors in the elevated room all showing Shinji provide foreshadowing for when the series would discuss the Hedgehog’s Dilemma; for all of the indifference Gendou shows toward his son it raises the question of why he has all of his cameras focused on Shinji. It could be to have someone to mock or more likely it is because he wants to be close to Shinji in one sense and far away from him in another aspect. The Hedgehog’s Dilemma, after all, is about someone being hurt when somebody else becomes too emotionally close to his or her person.

The Hedgehog’s Dilemma also creates much of the characterization for Shinji Ikari and Asuka Langley Soryu as they refuse to become emotionally close to anyone but maintain their distance through contrasting means: Ikari opts to withdraw into himself while Soryu uses an abrasive façade. On the other hand, Misato Katsuragi’s internal problems hardly affect her outward actions as she diligently commands much of the operations regarding the Eva Units and is Shinji and Asuka’s guardian. In contrast to the flirtatious Misato, Ritsuko Akagi’s serious demeanor gives an impression of greater focus than that of Katsuragi at first glance. Rei Ayanami can be called a female Shinji and it would not be too far from the truth. However considering her relationship with Gendou and the implications regarding her birth, the moniker of “female Shinji” is not necessarily a flaw as it unifies the problems of all of the characters under a single theme. The strength of the cast of Neon Genesis Evangelion is how it reflects the reality of people handling nearly identical issues through varying methods of coping regardless of the benefit or detriment the “solution” actually provides as some of the characters would find out.

It would be safe to assume to that most of the people who would watch an anime like this are expecting thought-provoking themes but unfortunately having to question the narrative direction stimulates the mind as much as thinking about the religious aspects from which this series draws inspiration from or psychological examination of its characters. Ignoring the flawed storytelling, the show turns out to have a lot to like. Otherwise, the unconvincing narrative approach of Neon Genesis Evangelion might be too much of a fault to overlook especially when compared to its technical direction and its well-characterized cast.

I may get around to a legitimate reply, Akito, but there is something to be said in the level of demand placed on this show by critics contra, say, DBZ. Take a step back for a moment and question whether Anno's intention was the disgorging of profound philosophies, or just another show with something of an intellectual bent. Honestly, I've always contended its strength was more psychology than anything. The exhaustive allusion, the 'narrative'--these are little more than literary devices employed to frame the characters who, as you admit, are exceptionally developed.

P.S., thanks for removing the spoiler tag. I had to quote you to read the whole post.

From another thread:

Svidrigailov wrote:

Damien, I was particularly fond of the Eva (Eve) as mother, the entry plug being a surrogate womb and the 'absolute terror' field as the manifestation of maternal protective instincts. The issue with NGE is that without necessarily setting out to look for symbolism, certain aspects beg for analysis. For instance, when Unit 0 goes berserk, is this a rage at one's creator qua Paradise Lost, is it perhaps signifying a rape (the insertion of the entry plug without the Eva's consent). Or what about Rei? She's obviously modeled after Yui. Is Shinji's attraction to her and hatred of his father not demonstrating a textbook unresolved Oedipal complex? I've said before this series is psychological long before it's philosophical or even religious. Indeed the religious symbolism is topical, but the Freudian material is the foundation of the series.

damien007 wrote:

Hmm that is an interesting perspective, I've just always viewed psychology and symbolism as separate and so didn't discuss those aspects in my post. However you could really call the AT-field a manifestation of maternal protective instincts. It's outright stated in the show that the AT-Field is a barrier that separates the egos all living beings from one another. The whole purpose of the human instrumentality project was to eliminate all those AT-Fields in order to merge to consciousness of all living beings. Calling it a manifestation of maternal instincts is a little out there, however given the scene with Asuka in the movie I can see how a person might get that idea. However I always felt her ability to manifest an AT-Field in that scene was more to do with her gaining full control of her consciousness then anything else. Calling the AT-Field her mother's way of protecting her, was more something she came up with in her own mind to help her come to terms her mother issues and thus by strengthening her ego she was able to manifest an AT-Field.

I'll have a comment tomorrow.

Damien,

While it's noted that all beings have an AT field (as you say, they portend that it's what divides the egos of all life), the 'human' doesn't possess (or doesn't exhibit in the series) a 'strong' enough one to visibly manifest (only angels and Evas exhibit this ability). Likewise, the Eva isn't shown deploying one without a pilot in the cockpit (it should also be noted that the dummy system is accepted only when Shinji's in tote). Furthermore, you have in the original series Unit 01's 'ego' manifesting to Shinji as Yui which seems to lend a similar interpretation to Asuka's aforementioned miraculous recovery and consequent monologue; the love and protection of the mother ("You were always with me!" or something to that effect).

Confounding this somewhat is the last bits of EoE, where instrumentality's achieved, the AT fields disappear and everyone becomes liquidated/gelatinous. So perhaps what would be more accurate would be that the Eva's AT field is the exponential fortification of the existing AT field by the maternal instinct intrinsic to the Eva. What's for sure's that the entry plug is symbolic of the womb and the Eva of the Mother archetype; that the Eva-pilot bond is synonymous with that of the mother-child. This relationship is so pivotal to Eva because it's so heavily influenced by Freud, especially regarding the Oedipal triangle, though I question if there aren't touches of Jung too. For instance, Asuka exhibits a strong mother complex (which is confounded by her mother's suicide, whereby Asuka plays the roles of both mother and child) described in The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious:

"As a sort of superwoman (admired involuntarily by the daughter), the mother lives out for her beforehand all that the girl might have lived for herself. She is content to cling to her mother in selfless devotion, while at the same time unconsciously striving, almost against her will, to tyrannize over her, naturally under the mask of complete loyalty and devotion. The daughter leads a shadow-existence, often visibly sucked dry by her mother, and she prolongs her mother's life by a sort of continuous blood transfusion."

Now obviously her 'resolution' of the complex is based on a Freudian intellectualization, a convenient rationalization of the facts; her mother had her own issues with an obsession over the imago of the daughter--a meta-Asuka--induced by an apparently long-running inferiority complex and thus was never concerned about Asuka herself, but with the abstraction she lived vicariously through as a means of detente. But I digress.

The remake is pretty amazing after seeing the first two Blu Rays. I am looking forward to seing what they do with the ending.

I don't romanticize the ending of the original TV series as being profound, revolutionary, avante guard artistry, or anything good at all. It was half-assed because they ran out of money.

Svidrigailov wrote:

Damien,

While it's noted that all beings have an AT field (as you say, they portend that it's what divides the egos of all life), the 'human' doesn't possess (or doesn't exhibit in the series) a 'strong' enough one to visibly manifest (only angels and Evas exhibit this ability). Likewise, the Eva isn't shown deploying one without a pilot in the cockpit (it should also be noted that the dummy system is accepted only when Shinji's in tote). Furthermore, you have in the original series Unit 01's 'ego' manifesting to Shinji as Yui which seems to lend a similar interpretation to Asuka's aforementioned miraculous recovery and consequent monologue; the love and protection of the mother ("You were always with me!" or something to that effect).

Confounding this somewhat is the last bits of EoE, where instrumentality's achieved, the AT fields disappear and everyone becomes liquidated/gelatinous. So perhaps what would be more accurate would be that the Eva's AT field is the exponential fortification of the existing AT field by the maternal instinct intrinsic to the Eva. What's for sure's that the entry plug is symbolic of the womb and the Eva of the Mother archetype; that the Eva-pilot bond is synonymous with that of the mother-child. This relationship is so pivotal to Eva because it's so heavily influenced by Freud, especially regarding the Oedipal triangle, though I question if there aren't touches of Jung too. For instance, Asuka exhibits a strong mother complex (which is confounded by her mother's suicide, whereby Asuka plays the roles of both mother and child) described in The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious:

"As a sort of superwoman (admired involuntarily by the daughter), the mother lives out for her beforehand all that the girl might have lived for herself. She is content to cling to her mother in selfless devotion, while at the same time unconsciously striving, almost against her will, to tyrannize over her, naturally under the mask of complete loyalty and devotion. The daughter leads a shadow-existence, often visibly sucked dry by her mother, and she prolongs her mother's life by a sort of continuous blood transfusion."

Now obviously her 'resolution' of the complex is based on a Freudian intellectualization, a convenient rationalization of the facts; her mother had her own issues with an obsession over the imago of the daughter--a meta-Asuka--induced by an apparently long-running inferiority complex and thus was never concerned about Asuka herself, but with the abstraction she lived vicariously through as a means of detente. But I digress.

Interesting Analysis. A couple of things I'd contend however. Unit 01's ego doesn't manifest itself to Shinji as Yui, Unit 01 literally contains Yui's ego. I can't remember the exact episode number, but the episode where Shinji is liquidated inside of unit 01, Ristsuko said it had happened once before and she was referring to Yui. In the flashback episode where you see the founding of nerve Yui is last seen going into the entry plug of Unit 01 when something goes wrong and she isn't seen again. Also in another episode Gendo directly refers to Unit 01 as Yui when it continually refuses the dummy plug.
Also I think you may be placing too much in the relationship between Shinji and his mother. I mean I didn't get any feeling that Shinji had anything more than a plutonic love for his mother. In the movies I believe he says that he doesn't know why but he feels comfortable around Rei. Similarly when Asuka flat-out asks Rei if she loves Shinji she says she just wants him to be happy and to get along with Gendo. The relationship didn't come across to me as being sexualised in anyway. I mean except for the scene where he sees her naked and in that situation he acted like any kid would and didn't even know about Rei's connection to his mother.

If anything I think Shinji has much more of a father complex then a mother complex. He doesn't get mad at his father because he gets more attention from Rei, he gets mad at his father for giving more attention to Rei then him. Like he said several times throughout the series he could barely even remember his mother. The root of all his psychological issues stems from Gendo who abandoned him after his mother died and retrieved him only to use him to serve his purposes almost killing him. Shinji sole motivation throughout the entire series was to gain his father's approval, he even admits to this during one of his head trips later in the series.

V1046-R wrote:

The remake is pretty amazing after seeing the first two Blu Rays. I am looking forward to seing what they do with the ending.

I don't romanticize the ending of the original TV series as being profound, revolutionary, avante guard artistry, or anything good at all. It was half-assed because they ran out of money.

Care to expand on that statement? Seriously when did it become so fashionable to criticize NGE? It's one of the most commercially and critically successful anime of all time, but suddenly it became cool and hip to call it bad which annoys me to no end. So what if they were running out of money? It doesn't make the ending any less profound. Just take a look at another Gainax series Gunbuster, the final episode had to be done entirely in black and white and the final battle was just a series of pictures, but did that make it bad? Nope, If anything it added a sense solemness to the ending and the show is considered a cult classic.

Some people just need to learn to accept if they didn't like NGE maybe it isn't just isn't there kind of show. But instead they just call it terrible for failing to be the kind of show they wanted it to be.

damien007 wrote:

Interesting Analysis. A couple of things I'd contend however. Unit 01's ego doesn't manifest itself to Shinji as Yui, Unit 01 literally contains Yui's ego. I can't remember the exact episode number, but the episode where Shinji is liquidated inside of unit 01, Ristsuko said it had happened once before and she was referring to Yui. In the flashback episode where you see the founding of nerve Yui is last seen going into the entry plug of Unit 01 when something goes wrong and she isn't seen again. Also in another episode Gendo directly refers to Unit 01 as Yui when it continually refuses the dummy plug.
Also I think you may be placing too much in the relationship between Shinji and his mother. I mean I didn't get any feeling that Shinji had anything more than a plutonic love for his mother. In the movies I believe he says that he doesn't know why but he feels comfortable around Rei. Similarly when Asuka flat-out asks Rei if she loves Shinji she says she just wants him to be happy and to get along with Gendo. The relationship didn't come across to me as being sexualised in anyway. I mean except for the scene where he sees her naked and in that situation he acted like any kid would and didn't even know about Rei's connection to his mother.

If anything I think Shinji has much more of a father complex then a mother complex. He doesn't get mad at his father because he gets more attention from Rei, he gets mad at his father for giving more attention to Rei then him. Like he said several times throughout the series he could barely even remember his mother. The root of all his psychological issues stems from Gendo who abandoned him after his mother died and retrieved him only to use him to serve his purposes almost killing him. Shinji sole motivation throughout the entire series was to gain his father's approval, he even admits to this during one of his head trips later in the series.

Well said, I think I'll have to agree with you there.

damien007 wrote:

V1046-R wrote:

The remake is pretty amazing after seeing the first two Blu Rays. I am looking forward to seing what they do with the ending.

I don't romanticize the ending of the original TV series as being profound, revolutionary, avante guard artistry, or anything good at all. It was half-assed because they ran out of money.

Care to expand on that statement? Seriously when did it become so fashionable to criticize NGE? It's one of the most commercially and critically successful anime of all time, but suddenly it became cool and hip to call it bad which annoys me to no end. So what if they were running out of money? It doesn't make the ending any less profound. Just take a look at another Gainax series Gunbuster, the final episode had to be done entirely in black and white and the final battle was just a series of pictures, but did that make it bad? Nope, If anything it added a sense solemness to the ending and the show is considered a cult classic.

Some people just need to learn to accept if they didn't like NGE maybe it isn't just isn't there kind of show. But instead they just call it terrible for failing to be the kind of show they wanted it to be.

LOL, I love how people get emotional when someone points out flaws in this TV show, as if it is anime gospel that is untouchable by criticism. This is my kind of show, which is why I think the obtuse ending that was a departure from the style of the show up until that point made it look so compromised.

The criticism of the end of this TV series has nothing to do with latest fashion. I do believe these criticisms have existed since the original broadcast, and are not going to go away. If a lot of people have a similar criticism, perhaps there is something real there to look at, and not dismiss those opinions as just people who like different kinds of shows. I still consider this show a great classic. But I see it as a classic with a glaring flaw in how it ends.

V1046-R wrote:

damien007 wrote:

V1046-R wrote:

The remake is pretty amazing after seeing the first two Blu Rays. I am looking forward to seing what they do with the ending.

I don't romanticize the ending of the original TV series as being profound, revolutionary, avante guard artistry, or anything good at all. It was half-assed because they ran out of money.

Care to expand on that statement? Seriously when did it become so fashionable to criticize NGE? It's one of the most commercially and critically successful anime of all time, but suddenly it became cool and hip to call it bad which annoys me to no end. So what if they were running out of money? It doesn't make the ending any less profound. Just take a look at another Gainax series Gunbuster, the final episode had to be done entirely in black and white and the final battle was just a series of pictures, but did that make it bad? Nope, If anything it added a sense solemness to the ending and the show is considered a cult classic.

Some people just need to learn to accept if they didn't like NGE maybe it isn't just isn't there kind of show. But instead they just call it terrible for failing to be the kind of show they wanted it to be.

LOL, I love how people get emotional when someone points out flaws in this TV show, as if it is anime gospel that is untouchable by criticism. This is my kind of show, which is why I think the obtuse ending that was a departure from the style of the show up until that point made it look so compromised.

The criticism of the end of this TV series has nothing to do with latest fashion. I do believe these criticisms have existed since the original broadcast, and are not going to go away. If a lot of people have a similar criticism, perhaps there is something real there to look at, and not dismiss those opinions as just people who like different kinds of shows. I still consider this show a great classic. But I see it as a classic with a glaring flaw in how it ends.

What? this show has always recieved more then its fair share of criticism. No-one is saying the show is untouchable but people go out of thier way to insult it. The ending was very controversial but i think that was unjustly so. The director of the series himself said he was suprised at the backlash becuase he thought the ending was fine as it was. However that is exactly why EoE was created so that people couldn't blindly criticize the ending anymore. Furthermore if your only critcism of the show is that "It was half-assed becuase they ran out of money" then clearly your criticism isn't well thought out. If you have valid criticism then go ahead, that is what this thread is for, but don't make such a baseless half-assed one. And if you don't consider it profound, revolutionary, avante guard or "anything good at all" then back it up.

TL;DR: Don't blindly criticize something if you can't substantiate your criticism.

damien007 wrote:

V1046-R wrote:

damien007 wrote:

V1046-R wrote:

The remake is pretty amazing after seeing the first two Blu Rays. I am looking forward to seing what they do with the ending.

I don't romanticize the ending of the original TV series as being profound, revolutionary, avante guard artistry, or anything good at all. It was half-assed because they ran out of money.

Care to expand on that statement? Seriously when did it become so fashionable to criticize NGE? It's one of the most commercially and critically successful anime of all time, but suddenly it became cool and hip to call it bad which annoys me to no end. So what if they were running out of money? It doesn't make the ending any less profound. Just take a look at another Gainax series Gunbuster, the final episode had to be done entirely in black and white and the final battle was just a series of pictures, but did that make it bad? Nope, If anything it added a sense solemness to the ending and the show is considered a cult classic.

Some people just need to learn to accept if they didn't like NGE maybe it isn't just isn't there kind of show. But instead they just call it terrible for failing to be the kind of show they wanted it to be.

LOL, I love how people get emotional when someone points out flaws in this TV show, as if it is anime gospel that is untouchable by criticism. This is my kind of show, which is why I think the obtuse ending that was a departure from the style of the show up until that point made it look so compromised.

The criticism of the end of this TV series has nothing to do with latest fashion. I do believe these criticisms have existed since the original broadcast, and are not going to go away. If a lot of people have a similar criticism, perhaps there is something real there to look at, and not dismiss those opinions as just people who like different kinds of shows. I still consider this show a great classic. But I see it as a classic with a glaring flaw in how it ends.

What? this show has always recieved more then its fair share of criticism. No-one is saying the show is untouchable but people go out of thier way to insult it. The ending was very controversial but i think that was unjustly so. The director of the series himself said he was suprised at the backlash becuase he thought the ending was fine as it was. However that is exactly why EoE was created so that people couldn't blindly criticize the ending anymore. Furthermore if your only critcism of the show is that "It was half-assed becuase they ran out of money" then clearly your criticism isn't well thought out. If you have valid criticism then go ahead, that is what this thread is for, but don't make such a baseless half-assed one. And if you don't consider it profound, revolutionary, avante guard or "anything good at all" then back it up.

TL;DR: Don't blindly criticize something if you can't substantiate your criticism.

I think you are being very reactionary, and trying put words in my mouth. Each time you respond, you keep saying I am criticizing the show, when in fact I only criticized how it ended. Might have been an interesting discussion if you had focused on that, and not been rude each time you quoted me.

But seriously, do you think it is rational to be very rude to a stranger, yet expect them to stop & give you additional thoughts on an issue? You have implied I don't normally watch or like shows like this. You implied my opinions are based upon trends. You said my opinion was baseless, & half assed. Then you challenge me to debate it further? No, I won't give you that because I really don't like you.

V1046-R wrote:

I think you are being very reactionary, and trying put words in my mouth. Each time you respond, you keep saying I am criticizing the show, when in fact I only criticized how it ended. Might have been an interesting discussion if you had focused on that, and not been rude each time you quoted me.

But seriously, do you think it is rational to be very rude to a stranger, yet expect them to stop & give you additional thoughts on an issue? You have implied I don't normally watch or like shows like this. You implied my opinions are based upon trends. You said my opinion was baseless, & half assed. Then you challenge me to debate it further? No, I won't give you that because I really don't like you.

It's rude to expect someone to back-up their criticism? which you still haven't attempted to do by the way, so yes I consider it baseless and half assed if you won't attempt to do so. if you spent more time justifying what you say and less justifying why you don't need to justify your opinion then there wouldn't be an issue. But instead you'd rather tell me why I'm in the wrong and bieng emotional and reactionary for expecting you to do so.

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