Forum - View topicANN Article on Anime Junkies
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Lucca
 Posts: 67 Location: Amoung the Fern-Growers |
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My my... it's been a while since I've posted here... anyways...
The Bible said that would be Syria honey... you need to edjoobacate yourself a wee bit on The-End-Of-The-World before you make your theories ^.~ No offense, but... I had to ;p ANYWHO, on to my opinion on the whole matter. I took over an hour to read the whole topic, so I feel like I would want to adress every point made thus far. On the topic of AJ subbing licenced anime: It's wrong. It's the unwritten law, not something to be ignored and manipulated/ up for discussion. If Ninja Scroll is licenced, don't fansub/distribute/touch it. I don't care what the circumstances are. Once licenced, think of it as waiting for the next big Hollywood movie. There's the big-wait (think of how long we waited for Matrix Reloaded) and advertising. Almost, if not, all licenced anime gets coverage in Shonen Jump, Newtype, other anime DVD/VHS, and Internet News Sites (a local example would be Shelf Life). So don't give any BS about "If it weren't for Fansubbing there would be no market." That's all fine and dandy if this was 1990. But this isn't 1990 anymore. As for the simultaneous releases in Japan and America, yeah, that would be nice. I can see it happening, but not for a while. When it does happen, I'd that's the day fansubbing dies. There would be no need to have it then.... Unless you're a non-english-speaking European. On the Europe fansubbing issue, I'm sorry if you're English. I know PLENTY of Spanish, French, Portugese, Hungarien (sp), and German sites that do licenced-in-america-not-in-Europe animes. Why? There's no problem in ethics there. Because it's doubtful any english speaking person (other than myself ><) is going to d/l anime subbed in another language, it's safe to say that their sites are not going to have a problem because most of their clients will not be American. But on most english-speaking sites, Americans make up the majority of the leechers, and therein lies the problem... It's just majority rules. Too much risk of more American than Europeans downloading. English-speaking Europeans just got the bad end of the stick there. *shrug* Wish I could help, but it's pretty unpreventable. Alright... my head hurts... I'll fix this up later... *yawn* |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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The Ninja Scroll .torrent files were available on AJ's website Friday night. That's 3 days ago, not a week ago. It's also a good day after "Joe Anime" told UV that they stopped Ninja Scroll. |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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So...if you aren't in the US and the title isn't licensed in your country...get some people together who can translate Japanese and fansub it yourself. It's quite illegal for US groups to fansub titles that are licensed in the US. |
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radicaledward
 Posts: 776 |
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Nope greedy humans will be the downfall of the planet. However, I do understand you argument for the need for fansubs if you are outside of the US. However, in regards to English fansubs, there is no need. The market here is such that there is still no justifiable reason for having them other than greed. With the success that anime has had in the States I also foresee it being eaiser for you to be able to find it in European countries soon in the native language or in subtiltes of the native lagauge. What Anime Junkies did was wrong plan and simple, and if you want to get techinal all fansub groups are actively breaking the law by distributing the fansubs, this is simple fact as well. The responce that Anime Junkies had to the polite e-mail from the company was down-right nasty being that the company had all rights to sue Anime Junkies. Yes, there is an understanding between the companies and the fansub groups but you can expect that it will not be like that much longer if groups react the way Anime Junkies did. Last edited by radicaledward on Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Trom
 Posts: 6 |
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Ah, what luck! God has come down from heaven to provide simple declarations of fact for us that we need neither discuss nor question. Fansubs aren't needed! Everyone stop fansubbing now cause radicaledward is happy with the anime that's available now. Titles which aren't currently available commercially and titles which will likely never be available? No problem, radicaledward doesn't seem to be interested in them, and neither should we! Excuse me, what was "fansubs original purpose"? Seems like some people think it was just to create commercial anime dubbing companies in the US. Companies exist now, so purpose fulfilled, disband, glory be. Or was it to create anime fandom? A hoarde of people to purchase anime? Not that I don't agree with these goals, I do, and I think they are the major positive results of fansubbing (among other causes). But, unlike this poster, I (and assumably others) don't feel that those are the only goals, or that they are even complete yet. In order not to turn this stupid flame into a long essay, let me just list some possible other goals: providing access to anime which is not licensed and possibly may never be licensed (unlike some apparently, I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know what will be licensed until it's announced), exposure to different types of anime which are not considered popular (sports anime, for example), and continued emphasis on the idea that de-Japanifiying anime (and of course overly-kiddifying anime) is unnecessary and potentially counter-productive for our US commercial companies. Though there may be some justification for fansubbing things which are licensed, support of commercial anime distribution is an overriding concern which trumps any other such justification. Ergo, the simple fansubber ethic of stopping fansubbing and distribution upon licensing. For me, this is a good, clear line of demarcation. AJ is in the wrong by ignoring licensing. On the other hand, the "we know its going to be licensed" or "just consider everything licensed because of the few titles currently licensed (less than 10% of anime, btw)" attitude isn't really right either. PS: No matter when people joined the board, the arguments they post either stand on their own merits or they do not. Snide comments about not having been part of some "community" just make the forum sound mean-spirited. |
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GreatTeacherMusashi
Posts: 1 Location: Same place as your car-keys |
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Hi all, my staff directed me to this post, and I'm atm trying to refrain from finding out where killshok lives and beating the living crap out of him but that's neither here nor there.
Some of you may know me as quite active in the fansubbing world (I founded Chaotixubs, have done work for various groups and related stuff, and am ashamed to say, worked for AJ at one point in my "career" (hadn't really developed my moral code at that point)). I for one cannot believe AJ's response to this REAL company, a company which licenses and localizes anime (the very people we support with all our might). To respond with such ridiculous ideas and statements is simply apalling. Fansubbing is NOT a real business people, what UV is doing IS a real business, especially because they even helped co-produce it (which is one of the few times that has happened and shows great promise for the future if this show does well *cough* more Beserk *cough* hehe). To respond like this to a company is simply stating that you are NOT a fansubbing group, and simply a pirating group like the Hong Kong pirate groups (trust me people, UV won't have to compete with their subs, AJ's subs are appallingly translated, barely edited and crappily encoded, in some things much worse than HK DVDs). Any real fansubbing group upon receiving anything from a legit company with a real (or imagined) claim on a series would IMMEDIATELY halt public distro, i know my group would the very SECOND stop the distro and subbing. I've actually seen it happen before, a group halted a series because they got a message from I believe a Japanese company saying that they were in licensing talks and they would like the series to be halted. My memories of the event are a little sketchy, but that's esssentially what happened. Any real fansubbing group supports the companies on both sides of the Pacific and would respect and abide by ANY desicion said companies would see fit to lay down. We exist at their pleasure, if we are deemed detrimental to either side, we can be disbanded, remeber that. Now my personal policy on licensed fansubs is this: I will download licensed fansubs, (not Ninja Scroll tho becuase I didn't like it) but I wil also buy the DVDs, I will NOT however, put out licensed episodes for others to get because I cannot trust them to do the same and buy the DVDs, I will one day buy every DVD I have ever download a fansub for, that is my promise. I know this may seem somewhat hypocritical, and I do feel and understand that downloading licensed episodes is ethically wrong, but most of the time a series is licensed in the midst of it's run and I just can't stop watching, so if it's available i will download it. This is mostly a reflection of my own weak will, because it's easily available to get these "licensed" fansubs. Now to be certain i said bad things about AJ, but that was because of their response, I know a few groups that do licensed anime that I know the people in personally and know that they would shut down their eps immediately and would probably apologize for annoying the company that asked them to do so. Anyway, I was glad to hear that the contact at UV did not totally lose faith in fansubbing. I was surprised actually, if I were int he same position I prolly would have gotten pissed at fansubbers generally. I would really truly hope people do not lose faith in fansubbing in general, as, although it may have lost some of its impact, it is still a force to be reckoned with in the anime culture, it is the pulse of the Otaku (in the American sense of the word, I translate, I know what it really means so don't even start). I personally do fansubs to improve my Japanese, and because I just love anime and love to do it, I even plan to work in the industry one day in some capacity. I do not do it to be popular (although to be perfectly honest that is a nice side-benefit I have to say), I do not do it to rip off any company on either side of the Pacific, I do not do it to put out something "better" than any real licensing company. I have long been a detractor of AJ ever since I left their staff (with other members who have since put together a very nice other group which does some of the more neglected serieses that are not as likely to receive licensing), and this episode has proven them to be beyond all hope of redemption. It sickens me everytime I go into their channel and see how many times more people they have than other much much better groups (although I'm p-banned atm, so I can't check on that now). I hate them for the image they have given fansubs, and with this episode I will never ever forgive them, they have thrown the long and influential tradition of fansubbing into the dirt, and I hope that all of you would either start or continue to boycott all of their subs, even the "legit" ones. I am on the fansubbing panel at Otakon 2k3 this year, so please, if you have any questions for me in person feel free to ask them there, we will be discussing the future of fansubs and in particular AJ on the panel so if you are going to Otakon, please attend we promise it'll be fun 
Sorry this thing is so long, Andy Knight (GTM) |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Wow... I go to bed early one night and the forum explodes!
I knew that if we posted anything about AnimeJunkies, we'd get email bombed, hacked, etc and so on... why? Because AJ seems to be composed entirely of immature, obnoxious IRC k1dZ who have absolutely no concept of the real freaking world. There's a LOT of crap going on in this forum and a lot of folks are really deluding themselves. Here I go: 1. The whole "I want it now!" thing. First of all, patience is a virtue. You will not wilt and die if you don't have Last Exile in your hands now. People complaining that they don't get their shows 'fast enough' are a bunch of whining spoiled babies. You can wait a few months; that's all it takes anymore. None of this 'year' stuff anymore, unless something winds up on TV. You do not NEED anime, period. It's a luxury that, like the movies, should be afforded to you provided you can PAY the artists that make it. You don't get rips of major hollywood films that are finished in the 'months' before release, do you? Matrix Revolutions has been finished for months now; heck, I want to see it, but you know, that doesn't ENTITLE me somehow to having a rip of it NOW NOW NOW. I get to wait, because the people who OWN the film have elected to release it in November. Nothing wrong with that. 2. The whole 'helping anime grow' thing is TOTAL CRAP and YOU KIDS KNOW IT. Anime doesn't freaking NEED your 'help anymore', children. In case you didn't notice, it takes up a whole wall in most video stores, it's all over every magazine rack, TV channel, and in every toy store. You can't freaking ESCAPE anime right now, no matter how hard you try. Ninja Scroll did not 'need' a bunch of 14 year old IrC k1dZ to make it popular. In case they didn't notice, Ninja Scroll is and has been one of the most popular and favored anime shows of ALL TIME. Ask someone what they've seen, if they're a newbie; chances are, they say NINJA SCROLL. Why in the WORLD would the TV series need ANY sort of grass roots promotion? Answer: it doesn't! It never did! This argument holds NO WATER. 3. 'Previewing' shows. Companies cut trailers for everything that's coming out soon enough. Magazines like Anime Insider and Newtype preview EVERYTHING that's coming out. It's just like the movie industry; you see previews, you read about it, you see trailers, you read articles, and then when the product gets released (according to the companies' schedule, NOT YOURS), you get to see it. Simple as that. Again, I don't get screener copies of unreleased films, distribute them everywhere and then claim I did it because 'I want it now!' and 'I'm helping promote this movie!'. Ninja Scroll was one of the highest-profile releases and is coming out within MONTHS of the Japanese release. Same thing with Gundam Seed and Last Exile, ALL of which are being subbed by AJ. There was NO REASON to subtitle ANY of these series. 4. What's that? AJ didn't 'know' about Ninja Scroll being licensed? Okay, so we're to forgive them for being PAINFULLY, BLISTERINGLY STUPID? Do these kids do ANY reading? Heck, do they know ANY anime fans? Because ANY FAN would have told you that Ninja Scroll was an ABSOLUTE in terms of being licensed and coming to America. If they don't know about a show before STEALING it, then DO SOME FREAKING RESEARCH! Christ, 2 seconds on Google for ANY show and you can get a really good idea of what's going to be licensed and what isn't. Gonzo's 15th Anniversary HUGELY HIGH-PROFILE ANIME SHOW? Gee, I wonder if that will be licensed! The newest entry in the longest running robot series that's been ANNOUNCED AS HAVING ALL OF ITS ITERATIONS, PAST AND PRESENT, being licensed for American release by Bandai? Hm, I wonder if that'll come out here! 'Super Fairy Mirumu de Pon'? You know, you may want to fansub that one. Chances are it might not come out here. But for nearly EVERYTHING ELSE, there was no reason to ever sub it in the first place. Impatience is not an excuse, people. Grow up. That's like saying "I can't handle the violence in this film because I'm too immature!" So stop freaking watching it, stupid. 5. To the people in the UK and other countries that whine about not getting anime and how they deserve fansubs, since there is no way of controlling the flow of pirated material outside of the UK (and since our respective countries speak the same language; I'd have less of a problem with German fansubs), then you can't prevent these stolen copies from reaching the largest market where the title HAS been licensed. These companies have EVERY RIGHT to stop these fansubs; we're sorry that the UK doesn't get everything we do, but in order to make sure we still GET anime in the first place, we can't have English fansubs floating around. You aren't America, get over it. We're the biggest market and therefore the most important in a capitalist system. Deal with it. You will not and should not be catered to when it comes down to making a profit and making sure the product isn't being stolen out from under you. People who aren't American whine about Americans getting everything and being catered to. Well, we spend the most money, we keep these companies in business, so that's how it is. That's reality. Get used to it. You can always import American DVDs. Costs too much? Oh well. You didn't have any right to see it in the first place, just like everyone else. 5. I would like to point out how satisfying it is that all of AJ's supporters 'are teh 1s typeing liek this OMG U ALL SUKK' and the people with rational arguments against AJ actually seem capable of forming complete sentences without too many spelling mistakes. You folks make me proud. Step up, suckas! -Z |
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Grauw
Posts: 11 Location: Netherlands |
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Cassandra, I would honestly *love* to do that!! . Though I first really need to learn more Japanese hehe... Anyways, yeah, as Lucca said I'm afraid it's indeed a matter of 'the majority rules' as far as English subs are concerned. We in the Netherlands do have our own language (being, ofcourse, Dutch), however I guess we're too small to have our own fansubbing groups. I do know of some French and German fansubbing groups (I believe Ishin has a French division and I saw a lot of German Hikaru no Go - or was it Hajime no Ippo? - fansubs too).
Anyways, with the situation as it currently is I really don't have anything to complain, I can somewhat legally download anime which is licensed in the US, and I buy whatever is available here (provided I like it ofcourse  ). If steps will be taken at some point in the future to 'subdue those evil fansubbers who don't obey the holy code  ' (no disrespect towards that code here), that'll just be that, and there will still be lots of unlicensed anime, and when there is a demand some Dutch fansubbers will probably finally arise aswell.
I somewhat doubt this will mean the downfall of the entire fansubbing community, just because it's been there for so long, and the anime companies have accepted the fansubbing. They probably watched fansubs themselves in the past/present aswell. Hell, the Dutch representative of Dynamic Visions told me once that if I were ever to distribute my acquired fansubs, I'd know where to find him ;p. In addition to that, the 'good' fansubbers are basically not really violating any big laws... Well, there's the author's rights, but only people who own those rights (or have a license) can take actions against that. So unless the Japanese companies themselves start a campaign to stop all fansubbing of unlicensed anime (which I find very unlikely since it doesn't really hurt them, takes a lot of effort, and is not in their nature), there's nothing to worry about. ~Grauw |
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Neilworms
 Posts: 155 Location: Chicago IL |
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One thing that particularly pisses me off about the digisubbers is their insistance on subbing the newest shows only. I can and probably will have a chance to see these shows for free, you know where I see these shows... My local anime club. If one person hasn't bought it in our group than someone else probably has.
Another aspect of the same thing is that fansubbers are so caught up in the newest stuff that will probably be liscensed anyways to not take a step back and see, "What interesting shows are their that noone will ever pick up that noone has ever fansubbed." Their are plenty of interesting shows that have never been fansubbed, look at tezuka's old works, or Jarinko Chie, a film by Isao Takahata that was not done under Studio Ghibli. People should actively seek out older anime in the fansubbing community, because these are the shows that actively need promotion, not shows that are promoted every month via Newtype USA. I really felt good when ADTWR released Marine Express, because this is the sort of thing that Fansubbers should focus on. (even though I had a beef with the ridiculus format they used, just to increase video quality :( ). Their are plenty of other intersting stuff to do, like maybe some of the old Toei films, like what Kodocha was doing before they folded... just do something mature and get off of the high horse, were better than anyone else for being faster and more arrogant about it! Finally all of you who say AJ provides a descent service are full of bs. AJ is the worst fansubber in the fansub community. Their translations suck, (refer to GITS's infamous "mass naked child event") and now they are being complete idiots in responce to a polite request from an anime company. At the very least they should have provided a polite responce, and if they were dishonest had just lied in the e-mail... that's better than F-you straight to the company's face :(. (although I don't condone this dishonest action either, its just that AJ took the most immature, most idiotic way to approach things). I now fully support a boycott of AJ's releases, who's with me? The only thing that will break this is if AJ adopts better ethics and stops being inmature idiots that represent everything that is wrong with digisubbing today. |
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Freak24/7
Posts: 11 Location: Midwest |
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I look forwards to the day that AJ goes the way of Napster...
I am a mod at an anime forum and I have argued long and hard against fansubs. I am disgusted by the number of people who seek out fansubs (and DVD rips) of licensed shows. They see it as a way of getting anime for free and do not buy the show when it gets released. They spout ridiculous claims that fansubs have more accurate translations, say that anime should be free, and claim that all anime in the U.S. is edited. Fansubs are of dubious legality at best and horribly abusive at worst. They show absolutely NO respect for the distributors and the creators of anime. I have been on Kazza and Direct Connect before and I have seen hundreds of licensed shows available for download. How is that different from theft? How is that different from shoplifting the DVD off the shelf? Why are fansubbers only offering the newest series? It is becoming less and less common to see older unlicensed series being fansubbed. Over the 15+ years of my anime collecting, I have seen my share of fansubs and the quality has always been spotty at best. I research titles that I am interested in, discover what the series is about and then decide if I want to purchase the series. Fansubs have NO bearing on my decisions. Over the last 5 or so years, I have completely sworn off fansubs because I have come to believe they are nothing more than base theft. I respect the creators of anime and those who spend money, time and effort to bring it to us. Lastly the vulgarity and threats hurled at UV are showing an appalling lack of maturity. It was a childish display from a bunch of thieves I agree with Mr. Macdonald, Anime Junkies (and most fansubbers for that matter) can rot in hell... |
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Delthayre
 Posts: 414 Location: One of the good United States |
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I essentially agree with Zac (although I would quibble with his phrasing, as always). Fansubs are, for the United States at least, obsolete. But I cannot help but feel removed from all of this. The only fansub I've ever watched is Angel's Egg, and that's because you really can't find that in any other form in the U.S. (and I did very thoroughly check to make sure it wasn't licensed ahead of time). I was introduced to anime through the Sci-Fi channel when I was 10, showed a modest interest in it from then until 2001 when I began pursuing the hobby vigorously (largely inspired by Cowboy Bebop on Adult Swim).
The majority of my friends, who were also mostly inspired by CB on Adult Swim (I have a 1 acronym per sentence rule), don't really patronize fansubs or will buy the U.S. release when it comes out (one of them has seen s-CRY-ed many times fansubbed, but it still excited about the U.S. release). The only one of them that really patronizes fansubs justifies them on the basis of not being able to afford legitimate releases. I've tried to explain the problem of it to him, but he doesn't seem to care. In the end, it seems futile to argue against it. Too often it's preaching to the choir or to the deaf. And please, do attempt to employ a modicum of proper English (second-language speakers being allowed some grammatical leeway). It's very hard to the respect the words of someone who doesn't take the care to put those words in proper order, form, and within appropriate punctuation. Many people would also do well to research things more as well. Between numerous very good anime news sites and effective search engines, I cannot see how there could be any legitimate excuse for such ignorance. And as has been said before, patience is a virtue (along with humility and correctness, it is valued far too little). |
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Mithrandir2K
Posts: 24 |
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Hey ho
Before anybody points it out, yes I did join the forums today. This is, indeed, due to the editorial I read this morning. Because up until I clicked on the link at the bottom of that editorial, despite being a regular visitor to the site for a couple of months, I had never been to the forum. Never even noticed the little link on the sidebar. I'm not an observant sort, y'see. A little clarification of my environ would be in order, methinks. I am an animé fan from the UK. As such, I have relatively limited access to official DVDs licensed for retail in my own country. On that subject I believe a little kudos should be directed towards ADVUK, who in the past few months have made several positive strides in rectifying this situation. That being said, I can understand why many people lost in the self-important continent of Old Europe would be tempted to download fansubs. I, myself, observe a fairly individual code of ethics as regards fansubs. I will download and view a fansub only if I have, after looking on several websites that keep up to date with licenses (you all know where they are, so there's no need for me to link to them ), found that the title has not been licensed by an English-language distributor. If that title has been licensed, I won't download it. If a title is licensed while I am in possession of fansubs, I will erase said fansubs and wait for the American (or preferably UK) release. The reasoning behind this is simple: if a series is good enough for me to wish to keep my fansubs, it is good enough for me to buy on DVD, end of story.
Just to clarify something for American readers: The complications, in the UK and Europe at least, arise in obtaining officially licensed DVDs. Most fans in the UK who wish to purchase American (R1) DVDs can do so. Either they go through somebody like Amazon.com, or a UK-based re-seller (though the practise of re-selling is illegal, and in my experience is frowned upon more by the industry than fan-subbing). If one buys through a reseller, one pays over the odds by a few £Sterling (~US$5) including domestic postage. If one buys through Amazon.com, one pays an additional ~21.5% Import/Value Added Tax (~US$7) plus trans-atlantic postage - far more expensive, but completely legal. As far as I'm aware, a similar situation exists throughout Europe (or it will once the European Constitution has been ratified). Buying Japanese releases is even more difficult as postage costs skyrocket and the taxes still remain. Sorry - the only reason for that short essay was to dispell the rumour that it is no more expensive to be an animé fan in Europe than it is Stateside. With respect to this individual case, it puts me in mind of a conversation I had with a few friends once upon a time. The first animé I viewed knowing it was animé was the ineffible Bubblegum Crisis - my adolescent mind rationalised it as 'Blade-Runner with Babes'. It still occupies a special place on my DVD shelf and in my heart. When, maybe six years ago now, I learned of the BGC2040 retelling, I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. I learned, via the marvellous tool that is the internet, that the series was being co-produced by an American company, ADV, and as such was licensed. I swore a little, bit my tongue and waited almost 4 years to see the series (when the UK Pal Video release finally arrived). My friends got hold of fansubs. When they invited me round to watch them, I told them I'd wait until the real release. And when the real release came round I spent ~UK£150 on the videos and ~£80 on the American DVDs (in the boxed set, which had been released in the states before I managed to get my copy of the last video). I bumped into one of these friends a little while back, and he asked me what I thought of 2040. I informed him that I adored the show; that it was the best thing I had seen in a long time; that the acting on the English-language version (specifically Hilary Haag's Néné) was superb; that it was well worth waiting for. I asked him if he'd bought the vids now that they were available. He asked me if I'd lost my marbles. "How much? I'll keep the fansubs, thanks." This is the mentality we are dealing with. People who want something for nothing, faster than they can get it if they pay for it. Bigger, Longer and Uncut, in the terms of many TV-license releases Fansubbers do provide a useful service for fans in countries like England and mainland Europe where going out and hiring a series to see if you like it is not an option. Adhering to the strictest letter of the law, we shouldn't even watch the cover DVDs on our Newtype USAs. The problem is that many fansub supporters, both here and across the pond, do not treat fansubbing with the 'hire-service' attitude to which the more ethical fans subscribe. One would think the ideal outlook from a fan-perspective would be: Download the episode, watch the episode, if you like it go out and buy the rest. A more accurate relation of this outlook would be "Get it while you can, before somebody licenses it." A sorry statement, but it hath the ring of truth.
AnimeJunkies should not have subtitled episodes of a series that was licensed. If, as has been suggested, they were not aware of it's licensed status (which is doubtful - even if they didn't frequent UV's website they could have found similar information from sites like AOD) they should have nodded, smiled and said "Thanks for the head's up" when UV emailed them. Cease distribution, cease subbing, take down the Torrents. It's the matter of but a few emails (actually one email - the email sent by UV with a couple of additional sentences explaining its implications - cc'd to everybody involved) and a little editting of the website. It'd take less than an hour (less than 10 minutes if the HTML on their site is worth it's salt). They should not have reeled off obscenities like they were going out of fashion. They should not have tried to claim some fictional moral high-ground. They should not have made out that they believed themselves more important to fandom than the people who paid for the series to be made. They should not have done what they did, basically. They dealt with the situation in the worst possible way, and have threatened the very existance of something that many fans rely on. They screwed up. As to whether or not fansubbing is necessary/"morally right", that is a debate for another day. That is not what the editorial was about - the editorial was about respect in its most basic form. In the same way as the Industry needs to respect the wishes of the fans, the fans and fan-subbers need to respect and acknowledge the achievements of the Industry. I'm sure the editorial would have been written in a completely different tone if AniméJunkies response had not contained the aggressive overtones that the quoted excerpts imply - in fact I doubt very much if the editorial would have been written at all had AniméJunkies merely nodded, smiled and ceased distribution. This has been, above all else, an exercise in ill diplomacy. We would all do well to learn from it. Later days, Will Additional: I, personally, will not be buying Ninja Scroll TV. This is not because I saw an illegal digisub of the series and thought "That really isn't my cup of tea". It is because I saw the movie and thought "That really isn't my cup of tea". So the fansubs of this series served no useful purpose to me, and I'm a fan. Last time I checked. Last edited by Mithrandir2K on Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Coral Skipper
Posts: 223 |
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I agree I don't see a need for fansubs, but I realize we can't get rid of them and see a need to at least try to regulate them (see my latest post in the revised fansubber ethics code thread). I have never downloaded a fansub and I get by just fine, even with the fact that ninety-five percent of the time I'm broke. As for those in other countries I really do sympathize with you, but I don't want people who are bringing anime legitimately to America to be hurt by fansubbing. I think Mr. Mania will agree with me when I say that any anime fansubbed in English, even if the group is based outside of America, will hurt American companies who own the license because Americans will download them anyway. I would recommend importing legitimate DVDs from America because they almost always have English subtitles, or learning Japanese and putting your own fansub group together and fansub in your native country. Also for anyone outside of America who posts on this thread please realize that the policies of the American gov't do not neccesarily reflect the companies who release anime, so you shouldn't have your anti-American gov't sentiment reflect how you treat American companies. Am I the only one that noticed that this thread got a lot of new people to join? |
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Grauw
Posts: 11 Location: Netherlands |
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Er... don't most, if not all, DVD's have one of those nice notes which say you can't watch it in a group, club, etc? In what way is this somehow more 'legal' than watching a licensed anime series in either fansub or dvdrip format? And er, those new series, if at all, it'll probably take years before they'll get released here (Netherlands). Dynamic Visions is currently publishing series like Trigun and Cowboy Bebop, and they claim to still have a large stock of licenses, and hence will for the time being not acquire new ones. Series I enjoy most, like Jungle Guu, Kimagure Orange Road, Azumanga Daioh, Pita-Ten, I My Me! Strawberry Eggs, Daa! Daa! Daa!, G-on Riders, Maison Ikkoku, and so on (and actually all AnimeCo stuff, they rule!), I have no hope at all they will ever be released here. Series like Saishuuheiki Kanojo, Chobits, Witch Hunter Robin, Ayashi no Ceres, Love Hina... Maybe. I definately hope so. But I think Chobits and Love Hina is too much of the comedy/romance genre to stand a chance. About Kazaa and Direct Connect: yes, it is true that you can find loads of licensed (in the US, at least) anime. In fact, the only medium where a good distinction between licensed and unlicensed anime is made is, ironically, the home of most fansubbers, IRC. Depends on the server ofcourse, but all groups on irc.enterthegame.com have a strict unlicensed anime-only policy. In any case, I think there is no stopping the distribution of anime episodes which have been released before it was licensed. That's unfortunately how the internet works, one cannot 'retract' a fansub which has been released previously. Personally, I have my own ethics, and I abide by them. Basically this comes down to, I won't download anime which is licensed here, I certainly won't distribute it to other people if it is, and I buy a huge lot of anime DVD's (a large part of what is being released here). I just hope other anime fans are sensible enough to have somewhat the same feelings about this topic. Ofcourse there are those who don't, but I think I still belong to the majority. Or at least I hope I do. ~Grauw |
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Tiresias
Posts: 353 Location: Illinois, USA |
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That's only if you charge admission specifically for the purpose of viewing that title. EDIT: I should add that this is how this copyright law has been explained to me and that there are exceptions for film festivals and conventions and the like.
Yes, but after this all dies down will they remain and continue to post meaningful contributions to the forum? |
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