Forum - View topicUmineko - When They Cry (TV).
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Aoi_Sakaraba
 Posts: 312 Location: Des Moines, Iowa |
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Well, your opinion is yours and yours alone, and no one can steal it 
But out of all the animes I've seen, especially out of shows that use thinking like this, I think they go together just fine. I wouldn't rate a show down because a show doesn't explain everything at the end. That just shows that there will likely be another season. Kind of like Higurashi series 1 vs 2 |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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It's a policy of mine to punish shows which do not provide a finale. If Zipang were to ever get a sequel - extremely unlikely but not impossible - I would bump it up to a Masterpiece in a hearbeat, before I watched even a minute of the new series. Not having an ending does not mean an automatic grade drop, but I do give serious consideration. If I've sat through thirteen or twenty-six or even sometimes fifty episodes, I will not put up with a bad ending or a non-ending, not after all that investment. It's just the way I roll. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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The final VN came out 15 days ago, if they had released a second season it would've had to end in a 3rd season and hence also rated crap by your scale. If companies waited for source material to finish before making an anime 70% of the shows released in the last 5 years still wouldn't be anime shows.
His argument is that magic had nothing to do with the deaths of his family, arguing that point with a "real" witch while in a meta world is hardly a contradiction. (and if you think that is boy, wait until the start of the 6th arc..) The entire "Battler is an idiot, look there is magic!!!" mindset of an anime only viewer is the biggest failing of the anime imo. |
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Aoi_Sakaraba
Posts: 312 Location: Des Moines, Iowa |
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So if the second season redeemed the series, would you go back and rate the first one higher? Also ditto what west said, most animes are released half way through a manga's and or game series longevity (at least with most of the 178 series I've seen). For example: If the anime spiral continued the same path of the manga, everyone would have a completely different opinion of the franchise, because they started adding weird scifi things to it like spoiler[ Human cloning, and set live spans on the clones, etc] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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If the second season was just announced and dated (as in, I knew for sure it was going to be made) then I would up the grade from Not Really Good to So-So straight away. If the second season turned out to be really really good, then I almost certainly still would not bump the first season up. Why? Because the first season was still not all that great. I believe the first season of Code Geass to be a Masterpiece, and that the second season is not. But that doesn't mean the second season drags down the first, if I were to consider them separate works.
There is such a thing as meta; look at Mystery Science Theater 3000. But a meta world based inside the show cannot exist without magic. Or at least, by technology so advanced (mastery over time and space, ability to jump between dimensions and exist outside our own, et cetera) that it might as well be magic to us. But then, that would be aliens, not humans. Beatrice would have six tentacles and sixteen eyes and drink her "tea" from a nutrient vat. Or something. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the meta, 1998, and the 1986 game realities clash and cross over? Ange meets meta-Battler, something which should be impossible if it were truly a meta world. Also, there is a link between Chiyo and Virgilla; didn't Chiyo turn into Virgilla one game, who then appeared in the meta world? Been a while since I watched it, so I can't remember the exact details, but it does seem odd. |
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ninjapet
 Posts: 1517 |
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Because it was bad compared to the VNs. Though if you think about it Battler's jackass-ness in the anime is a big hint to what happens to him in the later episodes. Really, why watch the anime when you can play the PS3 port which has full voice acting? I mean, you get the full story with no cuts that way. |
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Aoi_Sakaraba
Posts: 312 Location: Des Moines, Iowa |
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.... In terms of anime though it was awesome. It's weird watching people rate this at say a 4, but then rate kanokon, girls bravo, or a random perverted ecchi serious with no plot at an 7 or an 8. I already claimed that yes compared to the VN's Umineko sucked, but in terms of "ANIME" it's awesome. ----------------------------------------- Unlike what julius caesar said, "Ignorance is not bliss" |
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EmbraceMe
 Posts: 2015 Location: Growing old and jaded. |
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Usually when I rate animes that are based off light novels, manga, visual novels or games, I would be strict. But Umineko was different, and some other animes too. I've never read the whole VN of Umineko, but as itself, it is pretty damn good. Just because an anime didn't follow it's counterpart fully, it doesn't mean it's bad. I try to enjoy animes for what they are, and I repeat, Umineko is great even if it did not follow the VN fully. Since I've seen a lot animes base off mangas/VN's/LN's/games, I decided to stop comparing them to each other, and enjoy them for what they are (or at least try). I think those who keep comparing the two, and bash on it, are not trying to enjoy the anime.
Anyways, I really want a sequel just so the story would finish itself, and so I would get a big case of mindfuck from all the complex paradox theories it offered. I don't want to bother buying the VN :X, since I'm cheap when it comes to buying anime products. I really loved the series, the art was fantastic, and the music was excellent (and fit my tastes.) Not only that, the paradox theories just made it super interesting and kept me thinking, and end up being confused. But by the end of that "chapter", it was cleared up with Battler's epic explanations. |
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ninjapet
Posts: 1517 |
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Even in terms of a stand alone the anime doesn't give the viewer enough clues to solve the mystery. Heck even VN readers didn't get enough clues early on. It took a while before the two theories used to solve a good deal of Umineko even went online or got looked at. Still the anime screwed up any chance of Chiru making sense. spoiler[ Seeing as Battler was a jackass and Beato was stuck on troll nonstop. How are you going to explain what happens to their relationship in ep 5-6? You just can't go from lol I'm gonna kill you bitch to a loving relationship and Battler giving a damn.] If you guys really want Chiru then just buy the PS3 port. There's plans in the works for a port for it. Or at least there was talk about it. |
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TJR
Posts: 223 |
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As the mixed reception shows, that's up for debate. Bear in mind that Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Fate/Stay Night (a big financial success to boot) were both successful despite plenty of complaints over adaptation, so it's presumptuous to say that VN purists killed the reputation of an awesome series. Even among first time viewers, there was a good deal of negativity. I thought Umineko was mediocre at best (the first two arcs anyway), and that's without having read the VN until after dropping the anime. Technical qualities were poor - dull and cheap shading, frequent drawing mistakes and off model art, unimaginative animation..... The bland storyboarding and photography didn't help either. As for pacing, I found it to be pretty janky. Some episodes suffered from too many things happening at once, while others droned on with little progression. These issues probably stem from the difficulty of adapting a dialogue heavy visual novel within so few episodes, but they nevertheless exist. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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No, it's not. I've never played the games, and I also think the anime is a horrible mess. Regarding lack of explanation, the series problem isn't that the series doesn't explain everything, but that it doesn't explain anything. By itself, the first season of Umineko is not a full story. We don't really know what is happening or why, and while some shows can validate this by intending the explanation to be open to interpretation, Umineko clearly has a TRUE set of events and explanations that are obfuscated from the viewer for the purpose of creating a mystery to be unraveled, and so the failure to produce the answer is a major detriment. What's more, the boundaries between the murder-mystery story and the meta-story between Battler and Beatrix is poorly defined, and that pollutes the murder-mystery plot. |
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Aoi_Sakaraba
Posts: 312 Location: Des Moines, Iowa |
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Looking at the post count of all the people saying Umineko is Terrible, I'd like to beg to differ. Most of the people bringing up the argument that this show is terrible have over 1000+ post on this website. Which then leaves me to not believe their creditability as much. Gotta love Otaku's
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Hikikomori Safari
 Posts: 44 Location: Calgary |
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Well, I'm going to have to debunk your silly post count theory and side with dorcas. The show was a mess.
I went into this looking for a mystery that had the potential to be revealed or solved, what I got was a load of nonsense. The first arc grabbed me; great music, interesting character designs, a real "whodunit" scenario. Then arc 2 came, the addition of the red text and giving us the opportunity to unravel the truth... another interesting inclusion. Then the show loses itself, where I'm sure the visual novel most likely did a better job. Battler denying the existence of magic watches as his family is attacked by goat men, random lightsaber fights, and knives that turn in angry little girls. All this while repeating the incident over and over as he firmly denies all form of magic with a real witch in a magical realm. At the end of each arc battler simply seems to pose a stupid stance, point his finger at nothing and deny everything that has happened without any basis for doing so. I've dropped less than 10 in around 300 series I've watched and this is one of them. I'll admin I'm partially to blame, I did not like the repeating arc style, but something is terribly wrong when I have to stop 21 episodes in and just stop caring at all. As others have said it seems like an issue porting it from the visual novel, too much was left out and the entire point of the series seems neglected. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I wouldn't want it to be exactly the same as the visual novels because if I had played them I'd know what happens and then what would be the point of watching a mystery anime if you know what happens and there's no freakin' mystery to it eh? So I say, go ahead change away. Then there's reason for people to play/watch both.
I haven't read any of the visual novel(s) and enjoyed the show quite a bit. I sure would like to find an uncensored (and English subbed) version of the show somewhere though to replace the pixalated one I have. *Adds that to his To Do List* |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Seriously, how does us being active on an internet forum invalidate our opinions? I wasn't aware people had a relevancy quota. |
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