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Raftina wrote:

One-Eye wrote:

If they have devices that can analyze a person's psychological state and their propensity for criminal behavior, why can't they choose people for the police force with other psychological qualities. For example, those that are more Lawful Neutral or more inclined to follow strict interpretations of the law and therefore less likely to challenge orders (more likely to shoot first).

My question is: Do they want to choose police officers who are likely to shoot immediately when the dominator allows?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you or perhaps you misunderstood what I said. My response was to Dusky Predator's speculation that the exploding bits were a purposeful strategy by those in charge to keep the population under control. I stated that this didn't quite jive with what the police academy seemed to be graduating out of its ranks and if it was a purposeful strategy then the police would more likely be in on it and would recruit appropriately.

But hey, since we are all just speculating I'll play along.

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My question is: Do they want to choose police officers who are likely to shoot immediately when the dominator allows?

Why not? You're assuming that the police and the system are the good guys or have good intentions. We don't know yet, as so far somethings seem a bit harsh and not particularly just (spoiler[driving a guy to criminality and then shooting him]). It depends on the laws and culture of this place and I'm not sure all the background has been revealed yet. They weren't trying that hard to take the mad rapist alive now where they? Sure they don't need police officers who will shoot immediately that's why they have hunting dogs who are quite willing to do this.

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Recall that spoiler[Masaoka mentions young people are susceptible to crime contagion].

And that's why we need people to go splat in the grossest way possible, because that won't effect young impressionable minds right? You know like even our newest young recruits to the force.

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With the presence of drones and enforcers as measures to isolate police officers from doing actual violence, I am more inclined to suspect that the police academies deliberately recruit people who do not like to shoot at the first opportunity.

That's a possibility. We could even go further and speculate that they recruit people with pacifist tendencies as these might be less inclined to be "infected" by criminality (don't want your cops turning into mad rapists right?). Of course this is all still a lot of conjecture on our part. But hey, what does that say about a system that's willing to let others do the dirty work (the killing) with the excuse that they are potential criminals anyways while keeping our citizens hands clean?

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1. Ginoza to Akane: "The CID is short on manpower..."

Yes, but we don't know why yet. Is it that they are overwhelmed with crime? Or its just that its not a very popular profession and don't have a ton of people signing up for it (pay and hours suck). Or maybe we are not getting the right kind of people for the job (bleeding heart Libs vs cowboy conservatives Wink

).

We are trying to pull a lot out of the first episode, maybe we should wait a few more eps to see if the setting gets fleshed out more.

One Eye wrote:

Raftina wrote:

My question is: Do they want to choose police officers who are likely to shoot immediately when the dominator allows?

Why not? [...] Sure they don't need police officers who will shoot immediately that's why they have hunting dogs who are quite willing to do this.

Since you have already given a reason for why the government would not need its police to shoot immediately, the appropriate question is not "why not" but "why"--Why would the government want its police officers to shoot if they do not need them to do so? This segues into the next point:

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You're assuming that the police and the system are the good guys or have good intentions. We don't know yet, as so far somethings seem a bit harsh and not particularly just

Assuming that the government wants its police to shoot when they do not need them to attributes bad intentions to the government--specifically the cartoonishly evil dictatorship. Assuming otherwise does not assume anything about the government, merely that it likes a mentally stable civilian police force. This is why dictatorships prefer to use the military and secret police to quell dissention.

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They weren't trying to take the mad rapist alive now where they?

When he was a mad rapist, spoiler[they were trying to take him alive: Kagari shot him with a tranquilizer first. When the dominator converted to lethal mode, the first interaction he had with the police was to demand that they drop their guns, after which he immediately tried to shoot to kill the police. When the dominator converted to lethal mode against the woman, she was ready to light several cans of presumably gasoline on fire.] So far, we have seen far more evidence of a healthy respect for the safety of the law enforcement officers than this harsh system you are describing.

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But hey, what does that say about a system that's willing to let others do the dirty work (the killing) with the excuse that they are potential criminals anyways while keeping our citizens hands clean?

It says the system finds a way to channel the criminal tendencies of the enforcers to useful ends rather than merely executing them. Notice Masaoki has a constantly high 120 coefficient, and Kogami appears to take pleasure in getting to kill people--witness the closeup of his smile when the dominator converted to lethal mode at the end.

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Yes, but we don't know why yet. Is it that they are overwhelmed with crime? Or its just that its not a very popular profession and don't have a ton of people signing up for it (pay and hours suck). Or maybe we are not getting the right kind of people for the job (bleeding heart Libs vs cowboy conservatives )

None of these explanations take away from the fact that the CID is short on manpower. All of them also suggest that the police will not find a large number of high quality graduates, so if we assume high quality means well trained to handle tough and dangerous situations, then there's no problem with finding those qualities lacking.

Well, at least this looks good. Like the reviewers point out, old Gen there is trying to make a Japanese version of BladeRunner (what the place is likely to become if everything goes cyberpunk...). So far it's more engaging than anything in recent memory (save for the beautiful Mardock Scramble), it's western enough (save for some typical Japanese things there, including this season's 'police girl'), and has got quite a cast, so I'll definitely keep watching.

The fact that it tries too hard, like some reviews pointed out, is, well, another anime thing they can't seem to get rid of. Like the stupid police girl (give us, if not the Major, then at least Kirihara, dammit!).

Also I honestly laughed at that explosion effect. Eighties nostalgia much? Laughing

Okay now that I actually finished watching the episode, Threat Judgement Updated: the new girl looks to be the main annoyance. Jesus, why the hell do they have to screw things up this way.

I watched the first ep of this last night, and I thought it was pretty good. I especially like the visuals - all the glowy lights all over everything really suits my sci-fi tastes. Pretty! I also loved the fact that when the chick picked up the gun, it gave her a HUD complete with mini-map. That was awesome. Wink

I do have to agree that said chick is kind of an annoyance based on this single episode. I mean, didn't she know what she was signing up for? Why the hell spoiler[was she begging them not to shoot an obviously suicidal rape-victim with a tranq? It's not like they were going to kill her (at first).] It seems like at that point it would have been in /everyone/'s best interest, victim included. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for her to join/be posted to this unit if she has such a major conflict with their core operating procedures, and one would have to assume she was at least aware of what they do before she joined.

On that note, wouldn't her obstruction of justice spoiler[(attempting to prevent them from apprehending a dangerous criminal, by the standards of the system)
] have in effect MADE her a criminal, too? I mean, that's obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting. They probably could have tranqed her right on the spot if anyone had pointed a gun at her.

Complaints aside though, I did enjoy it enough to continue on with it. Gen hasn't failed me yet, and it may take a few episodes for things to really get moving. Maybe police-girl will grow a pair and stop ruining everything after a few episodes. Here's hoping.

The entire latent criminal factor being decided by the gun, and so easy to change based on mood and temperament, seems extremely flawed. Not even the "DA GUBMENT IS EBUL" kind of flawed, but the flimsy writing variety.

Well, that's the entire concept of the show. It's not that the gun determines it as if the gun is making it up, there's a whole system which reads the subjects brainwaves or whatever and decides based on that how likely they are to commit a crime. The gun is just like the 'scanner' for this larger system. The theory, of course, being that if you can remove someone who is likely to commit a crime before they do it, you will eliminate crime altogether. Of course, the moral quandary which I'm sure will be the heart of the show is is it okay to punish someone for something they MIGHT do, if they haven't done it yet? It's the same basic concept as that old Tom Cruise movie Minority Report, although with predictive software instead of precogs who can see the future.

As for it seeming to be so 'sensitive', that is switching back and forth between lethal and non, etc, I think that this was a more extreme case than most. It makes sense, given the circumstances, that someone who would not have previously been dangerous suddenly becomes dangerous when she has just been assaulted/abused/traumatized. In a state of panic, she was about to take action which could very well have resulted in the death of police officers - before she was considering doing this, she was a non-lethal threat. When she suddenly was about to commit murder, panicked state of mind or not, the enforcement became lethal. When she was talked out of it, and was no longer thinking about murdering everyone, it went back to non-lethal. It makes sense for it to be adaptive in that way. But again, I don't think the situation as portrayed there is going to be extremely common in that world - even the one hound guy was like "It's a shame your first case has to be this unpleasant."

The problem here is that the latent criminality is SUBJECT TO CHANGE INSTANTLY. Someone gets in a bad mood over something and they're scanned? SPLAT. At least Minority Report goes on the combined readings and predictions of three proven psychics, and those were based on actual specific crimes they were (most likely) going to commit. This is "dude looks bad, he had the potential to commit a crime, but nothing specific." It's nothing like Minority Report, and they're gonna have to do a whole lot of splaining to give it any semblance of sense that doesn't come off as a cheap "lol da gubment wants to kill innocents, ya know, jus because, it's the future, you gotta do this in dystopian stories."

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

The entire latent criminal factor being decided by the gun, and so easy to change based on mood and temperament, seems extremely flawed.

Where is the flaw? Our police are authorized to use a wide variety of violence on suspects, including lethal methods, based on the police's reasonable assessment of what the suspect is going to do.

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The problem here is that the latent criminality is SUBJECT TO CHANGE INSTANTLY. Someone gets in a bad mood over something and they're scanned? SPLAT.

It is not likely for people to have mood swings so large as to degrade to the same level as a violent rapist--who is still in the nonlethal range--or someone who is ready to immolate others. For reference, a person who was stressed enough to get himself passed out drunk in the homeless/red light district is still below the threshold for any enforcement action.

Actually, I observe two systems of assessment. Recall what Ginoza told Akane when they were in the tent: "We don't need to wait for the Sibyl's judgment." Immediately after, the paddy wagon arrived with the dominators. Now, recall that the dominator can get a reading in seconds, certainly much shorter than the interval between the last time the suspect pass a scanner and when Akane arrived at the tent. This suggest a dual system:

1. embedded into scanners and dominators that assess immediate threat. Their purpose is to read a person's mood to determine how dangerous he is at a given time.

2. the Sibyl system, which processes long term assessment based on likelihood of rehabilitation.

I must say, the Psycho-Pass system is more realistic than the system posited in Minority Report. Psycho-Pass appears to be a natural evolution of our multi tiered criminal enforcement system: the judgment of the police officers on the scene as to the appropriate level of violence and the verdict of the court based on a more distant analysis. How the world might appear when our human judgment in the multi tiered system is replaced with machine analysis of one's psychology is a far more interesting than a complete replacement by prescience.

Yeah, I think this situation is a lot more extreme than what you would get with your average citizen, which justifies the quick switching of the criminality rating. I mean, in this case, this person went from disturbed to suicidal/homicidal right in front of them due to shock and panic. It makes sense that their system, the dominators, would be able to react to that in the field.

However, I can't imagine a situation like that is going to be very common in day to day life. I mean, if some joe schmoe is standing in a convenience store and suddenly gets the urge to steal a candy bar, an armed cop with a dominator isn't going to pop out of nowhere and shoot him. The only reason the response in this episode was so rapid was that A) the situation was extreme and B) they already had the guns pointed at her.

Hum de dum, well this show seems kinda cool. Exposition's a little heavy but whatevs, I like the feel of the show. Though it does seem a tad bit heavy handeeeeeOHMYGODDIDTHATDUDEJUSTEXPLODE.

Seriously, the detail the animators put into that guy ballooning up and then turning into a flesh pinata was almost beautiful in a really, really, REALLY fucked up way.

Episode 2

spoiler[Akane sure messed up her first day.
Shinya wasn't doing too well because of it.
Her second day was getting worse by the hour.
Little field work kinda improved it.
She's just lost and searching herself in her new job.]
Pretty relaxed episode.

Although it did suffer from exposition at the end(which to me was an attempt of luring people into watching other episodes too)the episode to me was one of the best of season.
What I really liked about it,is that it explained spoiler[ that system is not bad at all.It is actually pretty helpful,as it determines in what kind of mood you are so what atmosphere you should have at home to cheer up.Not to mention that it clearly chose Akane to be a police officer so she could restrict those "hunting dogs" who only act on it. ]There was also a big amount of character development.As Akane finally realized what is her mission,the guy that jokes around showed us a bit of his other side and that Kogami is actually very intelligent and not one of those stereotypical insane guys.
Just to add I think that criticism can that show is trying too hard is with this episode can rest in peace.It didn't try to be edgy ,it went into a different direction then stuff like Minority Report,and it seemed to be much, much more interested in questions of morality,then shock value or fanservice.

Episode 2
Oh, it's the real OP song. It looks good imo and has psychological theme in it that's also painted black and white.

Wow, nice technology tbh. I wonder if we'll have this sort of advancement in the future. And yea, I want that little mechanism. It looks cute and useful.

So it was a pretty Akane focused episode who happens to also be a smart girl according to her friends. That new blonde girl named Shion looks hot tbh. I think Akane is a little envious of her. Shuusei Kagari's little talk with Akane @ the place they were eating was entertaining to watch. He's probably my favorite of the series now for his personality and style.

Also, nice ED song.
Anyways, looking forward to some action next time but this was an alright episode.

Episode 2

There still is something that I am slightly hesitent about, but largely I enjoy the themes, and the sci-fi is indeed awesome. Akane was upset with supposedly messing up, I was bit annoyed that she was so hard on herself since I think she made the right decision, but I guess it does seem beliveable. A big part of the theme seems to play on the question of whether the police are protectors of people, or executors of the law. I am a fan of Akane so far. I wonder why that blonde chick was spoiler[doing up her stocking as a women was leaving her office]. hmm!

I am still of the opinion that the latent criminals are likely psychopaths, the term is largely thrown around as crazy people, but that is not quite true. They can appear like normal people, and the fact they are imprissoned before doing anything is a little sad, I guess putting them in the position in police allows them to watched so much, and execute the law to the letter.

Well... okay, I'll admit that Akane having taste in architecture made me respect the character slightly more (still, taste in clothes as bad as your average Japanese).

Is it just me, or Miyuki Sawashiro's character looks like Balsa?

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