Forum - View topicFrieren: Beyond Journey's End (TV).
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#26
To better illustrate the task faced by Frieren's crew while she and Fern got down to business, the duel with clone Frieren was expanded from last week to juxtapose with the other duels going on at the same time. Even so, casual viewers are in for a surprise as it turns out Fern didn't actually finish the job. Turns out Frieren as always is right, both with her read on Fern's capabilities and on her own shortcomings. Her last part at the end when she says how long it was since she used that particular attack also hints at how desperate that battle must have been even with Himmel and the others in support. I didn't expect to see Ubel's background in this episode, but it's very fitting considering her matchup in this episode. The episode is another reminder that magic in this world really is about visualization and matchups. In Ubel's case, her particular talent allows her to visualise better than anyone else, and if the matchup is favourable (Sense and Burke) she'll never lose and the hapless opponent likewise cannot imagine any situation where they'd win. On paper she'd never beat the two first-grade mages, but magic in this franchise is all about accomplishing the impossible and has been reiterated multiple times. Frieren can be beaten by Fern, and Fern likewise won't beat her teacher if she's going all out. But Methode is another who could beat Fern and quite easily at that. No one bar clone Frieren has successfully survived the Zoltraak barrage that is Fern's specialty, but Methode managed it and most likely did not require Frieren's intervention to finish the clone off if time allowed. A dangerous foe if crossed, but her versality makes her a powerful ally. Will we see the last of her after this exam? A grand end to the second stage, and certainly not as peaceful nor cooperative as Sense had intended. A bystander to the end, she kept her word and the participants who did survive will indeed have their names etched in history as the first successful raiding party of one of the world's last unconquered dungeons. Yet there's still one more stage to go before the examination concludes. What will that be? |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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That was a very magic combat heavy episode, they really ended the second exam with a bang or 30. As for the whole visualization thing with magic, I wonder how far it can go. If you have a mage who is very deluded/absolutely sure of his magic being able to counter everything, would he become something akin to invincible? If so, then it calls into question how strong a mage would be if indoctrinated with all sorts of ideas from an early age.
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ACｘS
 Posts: 887 |
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26:
Easily the most stunning episode produced by Madhouse in a very long time. Man, the studio doesn't disappoint! And finally, we got to see what exactly happened to Ubel in her last First Class Mage exam. As mentioned, as 1v1 matches between mages are pretty much like rock-paper-scissors, occasionally it doesn't matter if one mage is First Class and the other is Third. On paper, Sense is stronger than Ubel but given the nature of their magic, Ubel has the upper hand. Not to say that Sense isn't powerful; Ubel's magic is just incredibly unique. Ubel's visual imagination is stupid-strong—the sight of scissors cutting through cloth is very vivid, and the fact that she's been observing this since young makes it intimately intuitive for her—but to be fair, she also must be skilled at magic to make her visualization a reality. She's the kind that can cause a lot of problems even for formidable enemies. In sum, I find it intriguing how the strategy plays out for all the mages in this second test. It makes sense to team up from the get-go, something that Denken already thought of, but even so, eventually they are at a disadvantage against Spiegel and its replicas: ・The replicas can regenerate (that's just bad news) ・Sense sits out from the battle as the proctor (mathematical disadvantage) ・The replicas perfectly copy their original counterparts so the latter must outdo themselves one way or another (transcending expectations) There are only 2 more episodes left in this season, and the third/final test is taking place next? How will that work out? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23802 |
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AC x S: your analysis of the merits of the clones vs the originals is true, but you do neglect one huge advantage that the originals have (which was also cited in the show) and it goes back to the necessity of working together to clear the dungeon: the clones operate by instinct and cannot plan/co-ordinate their attacks to the same degree the way the originals can/do. That's a big and ultimately decisive plus. Personally, I loved when Frieren told Fern that she underestimates her and the show let us figure out what the significance of that admission was.
And of course I had to give out a morbid chuckle after Ubel bisects Cloak Dude and then muses to herself that she must have "cut a little too deep." Gosh, ya think? |
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ACｘS
Posts: 887 |
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That's true, and ultimately that's the theme of the entire test: you just have to work together. We can say that Denken made the right choice, but in hindsight, it's more of how going into this solo is simply doomed for failure. Whether in a big group (Denken and Co.) or even in a pair (Ubel & Land), working together is the only way to pass the test; it's the only advantage they have. And that's what Sense has been trying to say all along with her pacifist idea. Unlike the first test where teams must fight (maybe even kill) each other, here they just have to cooperate to get this through. Side note: Serie prophesized that someday, Frieren would be killed by a demon or a human. Is that human Fern? A little disconcerting if I think about it. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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To be fair, part of the issue is going from a first exam that has mages killing one another and forming grudges to one where they have to work together and even share their weaknesses in order to have the best chance of winning. It is a staggering difference in approach and that is why a large part of the mages were not enthusiastic to work together at the start of the second exam.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15481 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I loved the unmentioned detail of when Frieren is inside the golden mimic, you can see at least one other dead mimic. This implise that she went to one chest, was attacked by it being a mimic, and after escaping went right to the second chest and had the same. But we see two jaws, so it might have happened a third time.
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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Yup, the mimic gag stays fun. I do wonder if there will be a season 2 announcement right after the final episode. The show is a hit in many ways, so it would seem logical right?
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#27
If you didn't read the source material, would you have guessed what kind of format the third and final stage was going to take? I certainly didn't, as the two previous invigilators had two drastically different approaches to testing their candidates. Yet the final stage turned out to be an interview lasting less than five minutes for each candidate. Because it is so short, the episode itself is much like the previous intermission episode between stages where character exposition takes centre stage. Richter's mastery of earth magic is probably why he's so good at repairing magic staves, after all if most of them are made of wood then his affinity for earth means he can repair anything made of it provided all pieces are brought to him. Good thing clone Frieren didn't completely atomise the staff when she used her hidden move against Fern, allowing Frieren to literally pick up all of the pieces before leaving the dungeon. His interaction with Denken is interesting, as he's a realist with an approach to people too blunt to be suited for a shopkeeper. Frieren didn't hold any hard feelings, and went straight to him when advised by the townsfolk. I take it he was paid for his troubles, and he didn't have anything against Fern since there was no interaction between them in both stages unlike Frieren. Serie had to personally intervene because Frieren turned this year's examination into an absolute outlier. She has a point: so many of the candidates owed their passage to the final stage to Frieren's powers or knowledge in some form or another (Lavinie and Kanne to start with). If they were to take on another trial set up like the first two but with Frieren's power level as the high bar, most of them would actually die if they were not allowed to cooperate. Serie's trial by instinct is extremely unfair at first glance, but Frieren too is a good judge of others and was correct when she said Fern would pass. Fern after all is the first mage EVER who could detect the instability in Serie's mana output, which even her pioneer first-grade mage from half a century failed to do. Despite being greedy for talent, even she cannot force Fern at staff point to change masters so as compensation passes her through the third stage. With that verdict, the goal of at least one person in Frieren's party being qualified enough to pass the entire party through the northern lands has now been achieved and they can continue northwards towards their ultimate destination. Next week is almost certainly the last episode, and from what I can tell there is not enough material to immediately adapt a second season. This adaptation has been long enough at over 24 episodes, and to be frank the animators deserve their break. Two or three years of source material (coupled with lots of fans buying up the blu-ray home releases) will see a second season as this franchise has won over a large number of fans from outside its core audience. Early pre-orders have been slightly disappointing for this franchise, with Jujutsu Kaisen outselling it in pre-orders and total sales at last estimate not making five figures. It's still far, far better than peer series from the last quarter, but it really needs more money from fans to get the second season greenlit faster after enough source material is available. There's also the controversy from the adaptation crew being overly disrespectful in attitude to the author's work despite the good work they did in producing the final product, which is certain to impact any future decisions on adaptation if the author is personally against the same crew continuing for future adaptations. It's not showstopping though, as there are enough fans from the adaptation alone for everyone involved to bury the hatchet and work towards another classic. Only time will tell though, and there's one more episode to air before a proper verdict can be reached. [EDIT: Paragraph breaks added. -TK] |
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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Hate to see the series go, but it was a fine ride. I can still read the manga, so hopefully it will comeback, might take some time, but I think it will.
The final test being a interview, no real battle, I find it kind of refreshing. And Serie has some kind of grudge for Frieren. But she did the right hing, the people we saw her fail, they are no where close to being First Class mages and giving them that license would get them killed or more importantly other people killed. Anyone notice for a wise old elf Serie shows some cleavage, I wonder if that is a way to one up Frieren. |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2460 |
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There's one more episode |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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Sigh, I always hate seeing series (especially good series) end, but a show as magical as Frieren in particular hurts because it is not something that comes around all that often. We still have a final episode thankfully and I do not doubt that it will return sometime in the future, yet I am still very sad to see it go. I usually have something to nitpick about, in the case of Frieren I can honestly say that I can not think of any complaint to make. This week's episode is the same in that it was different than expected and at the same time very satisfying.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23802 |
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Yep. I'll give y'all a hint about how I intend to rank this show after the final episode next week: it'll be a word that rhymes with "blasterniece." And that's all yer getting out of me.
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ACｘS
Posts: 887 |
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27:
Hmm. I will say aloud what many people would be thinking: underwhelmed (at first). As a third and final test for the entire First Class Mage exam, I would wish for a climactic battle or sorts. Almost all of us would love that. And yet, the show takes a completely different route. In fact, judging from the talk between Serie and Lerner, it is almost as though the show is self-aware of what it is doing. And yet... the show surprised me with a surprisingly introspective ending instead. The show is full of tricks that I'm not already unaware of, and yet I'm pleasantly surprised by this turn of events. The signs of what the third test will become were already laid out early on: the decline of First Class Mages and mages in general, Sense proclaiming not wanting any casualties for her test, and Serie prophesizing that humans will take over the mage world. That being said, was it a surprise that Fern was the one that Serie approved after all? From the talk between Serie and Frieren a long time ago, the show already hinted this (and I also mentioned this in my previous post). Serie has shown some disdain toward humans, but Frieren welcomes them, both of which boils down to their relationship with the late Flamme. Despite her disapproval of humans, she recognizes Fern and even wants to mentor her. Even after being rejected, Serie still passes her. Is it purely because she recognizes talent when she sees one, or she hopes that Fern will come to her side someday? You know what? I really hope Serie gets her own arc. Her philosophy in magic and worldview are fascinating, and I know it has something to do with her personal experiences. I know she has a lot of stories to tell. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2521 |
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To the first part, people's reactions will depend on what they come to the show for and I for one had enough of fights this season to last a while. I came to experience a (by all accounts good) story and discover (possibly interesting and relatable) characters in reverse i.e. through a combination of retrospective, introspection and prospective. In that sense, the author knows exactly what they are doing and it indeed is good and works well. All fights do is to further character development by interaction in extremum, but what is important about the main characters and thier characteristics has already been disclosed so there are many like me that will find this season less interesting than the first. To the second part, IMO Serie should not have an arc because we already know she is self-absorbed, arrogant, simple-minded and something of a "know-it-all" which things overshadow any interest I'd have in her other experiences and activities whatever they might be. If she were shown to be more complex or had greater depth of character, then that would be worth an arc...I'd ask for a Flamme arc (because she is complex) that might include some Serie so we get some more early background... |
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