Forum - View topicFrieren: Beyond Journey's End (TV).
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1145 |
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For me, I think I'd go with melancholy. I can't say this show will be my favorite yet - there could be some strong contenders (Goblin Slayer and Spy Family just to name two) - but I'm definitely jazzed about it.
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9849 Location: Virginia |
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Melancholy is a good word for this series. However, I think Frieren's primary emotion is one of regret. She is not so upset that her friends died, but rather that she didn't get to know them better. She has been alive more than a thousand years and is undoubtedly well aware that humans come and go with frequency. However, the decade she spent with the group was the first time she had been with specific humans long enough to bond with them and to care for them. She realizes that she could have spent the last 50 or 70 years with them without disrupting her life.
The older you get the faster time passes. For Frieren, years must pass in a blink of the eye. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11303 Location: Frisco, TX |
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@Harleyquin
I think it's less-so about labeling the story as a tragedy, but more-so about understanding Frieren's extended life-span as being tragic, because we can assume she'll have to watch all her friends die of old age as the story goes on, which I think most of us will agree is sad. If you disagree with summarizing her circumstances as "tragic," you are free to offer alternative descriptors. Sometimes, discussing literary interpretation and symbolism as a group can be fun  .
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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I have no idea if the manga is still on going, but at the rate this is going, I think by the end of the series Fern is going to be a old lady isn't she.
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3893 |
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Yes, it is still on going. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#5
Can this show keep up the good start it generated from its pilot four episodes now that other heavyweights have also started their broadcast run? On the basis of this week's episode, it has every chance, but it depends on how next week's episode develops. If the upcoming battle disappoints, some of the goodwill will be lost from the hype the first four episodes generated. More of a setup episode, as it's one small self-contained arc and then the leadup to Stark joining the party. The show's unique emphasis on interpersonal relationships once again comes to the fore, as the main pairing deal with a carnivorous monster fond of using human memories as fuel to generate the phantoms of the dead as bait. Even the usual level-headed Fern cannot bring herself to shoot Himmel. Frieren on the other hand not only ended up with Himmel as her phantom instead of Flamme, it even made her job easier by telling her to shoot. The show has its own comic moments as well, usually centred on Frieren's languid approach to problems rooted in her own sense of immortal time. Although she doesn't say it out loud, Fern's expression said everything viewers would say in her stead after hearing how Frieren would approach the big problem preventing her from attaining her prize (which is again a random spell, I'm not sure why she's got such a penchant for spells which would land her in hot water if she was male). As for Stark, the OP gave a hint to his personality and it is this episode which confirmed it. Would casual viewers have suspected he was really a coward who got lucky? The other bombshell was Eizen. I did not figure him for a coward, but because he ran and survived he became the warrior who finished the quest together with Himmel and the others. Cowardice isn't necessarily a permanent impediment, so Stark has every chance of overcoming his fears and fulfilling his potential (which Frieren has recognised but chose to let Fern figure out for herself). From the OP, it's clear Stark will survive next episode and join Frieren's party on their quest north. The only question is the process by which the dragon is slain. Frieren has already shown she has no issue defeating powerful Demons given enough time to prepare, so Solar Dragons shouldn't be an issue despite their ability to fly. Now to see if Stark is capable of doing more than just splitting cliffs. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#6
The pacing of the episodes indicates each arc somehow finishes in the middle of its airtime before a new, sometimes smaller arc immediately takes its place. It's atypical as far as structure goes, but if it means we get to see set pieces like Stark vs. the Solar Dragon then I'm all for it. Fern doesn't mince words with Stark. If it's not calling him a useless coward to his face, it's calling him small after using the spell which sees through clothes (thanks to the wonderful ambiguity of the Japanese language, we're not explicitly told what she's referring to specifically as small). That said, her words gave him the resolve he needed to overcome his fear of the dragon and to fulfil his part of the bargain. Although there were some parts of the battle which somehow felt out of place visually, the whole experience itself was a showcase of what Stark is capable of when his mind is set and his training takes over. He's strong alright, and the main pairing are all the better with him tagging along. More surprises as well from Eisen. Kindred spirits with a fellow coward, he let his innate fear overcome him and break the good relationship he had with his disciple. But if he hadn't done that, Stark would never have met Frieren and Fern so perhaps it was fate. It also explains why Stark knew who Frieren was straight away, the dwarf had been impacted by that 10-year trip just as much Frieren was and despite his early complaints about how trivial some of the side trips were Himmel was right in that they finished it alive and with many stories to tell. Stark's motivation to repay Eisen in kind has struck a chord with Fern, after all they have similar backgrounds being warded to members of the successful Hero's party and are now journeying under the last remaining active member of said party. Another problem with "Elf-time", in this case Frieren thinking she can have two years of quiet time for research while her wards are going crazy thinking they'd be trapped in a dead town for the same period during a 10-year long quest to reach Aureole. How they got through was surprising given how much time has passed since Frieren last passed the gates, but statues all over the realm dedicated to Himmel mean the living legend is not forgotten. She might not like the pomp and pageantry (and the misguided read of the human inhabitants she passes on the way north) but it certainly has its uses. Some humour in this episode along with character exposition as well as action. Can't wait to see if the next episode will deliver the same mix or something a little different. Very entertaining all the same. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1960 |
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I am still watching an episode every week, though intentionally not staying up to date, the show is so good that I want one in reserve so to speak. What I find interesting is the whole passage of time theme of the show. I initially expected that to only come from Frieren outliving everyone and having a very different definition of time/a life, but is also comes from seeing how the world has changed in a relatively short period of time. Events and people are slowly forgotten, technology and magic advance and even the defintion of certain things change.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#7
I asked a question when I first started watching this series: Why does an immortal being bother with shorter-lived races when she has no intent nor motivation to match their sense of time? This week gave me the series answer: Because her own kind is so rare as to be considered threatened with extinction and immortality does not preclude your needs being taken care of 100% by yourself. Without dealing with other races (like the vast majority of short-lived humans like her master), she can't survive as she wouldn't be able to buy food and other necessities which she despite her immense magical power isn't going to prepare for herself every day of her long life. It doesn't explain WHY she joined Himmel's party in the first place, but dealing with humans like the trader who needs help when landslides block his passage helps further her hobby and pay her expenses. The first segment is yet another example of Elf-time in contrast with the rest of society. The trader does not make the connection that the statue of Frieren is cast in the very same likeness of the Elf Mage who assisted him with his landslide. The town will commemorate the Liberation Festival for as long as humans occupy it, but Frieren knows that as far as she's concerned there WILL come a time when either humans forget or the town itself is eradicated and the memory of the Festival along with it. Same deal with the flashback with Himmel's party; the look on Himmel's face when he made the connection with Frieren's soliloquy illustrates the gulf between Elf-time and everyone else which no one bar fellow Elves who have lived like Frieren has can ever hope to comprehend. And with that vignette, the main story arc begins in earnest. Qual was the first demon viewers were introduced to in this series, and his encounter was straightforwardly hostile. We now know that Frieren has more than enough experience with Demons and attacks them on sight regardless of circumstances. I don't blame her, as her insight is not something which can be taught. If the town learns of this from first-hand experience Aura's demons would have their victory in a decades-long war. Frieren doesn't treat her companions the same way she treats Himmel's party though; her first thought is to escape when the town is razed by the demons instead of trying to meet up with her compatriots. A bit of comedy now that Fern's acquired a few more comical expressions and has learnt a new way to get under Stark's skin. Stark can't win: if her formal way of speech is too unnerving, Fern going to the other extreme because of their closeness in age upsets him as it's so direct (as she is with Frieren). He's given up already on changing her speech pattern when speaking to him. Next week's episode title actually uses the Japanese name for this franchise. Now to see what the double entendre of Frieren's sobriquet really means. |
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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I don't get the message of this episode, that prejudiced is justified, certain people are just inherently evil Or they are inherently evil because we create them with prejudice, and that can't be undone with any kindness.
Anyway it looks like all the demons on this show are just bad, non of them are going to become allies and open a magic job and provide some hilarious fan service. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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1. Himmel and party travelled 10 years to kill the Demon Lord and succeeded. Also killed lots of other demons on the way. Other adventurers before them tried and failed, as did regular combatants like Granat's eldest son.
2. Demons eat humans. 3. Demons use human speech to deceive humans, and Frieren knows they're descended from beings which previously used human speech to lure humans as a means of hunting. 4. Demons have been at war with the Northern Kingdoms for decades at the time of Frieren's second journey. 5. Frieren's teacher Flamme defined demons as beasts capable of human speech a thousand years go. Frieren doesn't disagree with this definition. That's five statements of fact the series has established with regards to demons. When locust swarms plague Earth in the 21st century, would you stay your hand at extermination if they could speak? As far as the series is concerned, humans cannot coexist or negotiate with demons because the mindset is fundamentally opposed to human (and other sentient races like dwarfs who co-exist with humans) society. Aura's demons freely admit they intend to use every means available to further their master's goals, which is to infiltrate the Granat town and open it up with a Trojan Horse tactic. Lugner's subordinate took his own initiative to kill Frieren while she's in the cell and killed a human guard who stopped her politely in the process. The message from this episode is quite clear: demons are going to be a stereotypically "evil" faction and viewers don't need to wrap their heads around complex morality issues when watching this show. Whether or not casual viewers will take what is offered and move on is another matter, as it wouldn't surprise me if other posters ask the same question when imposing real-life human issues onto a work of fantasy. Conveniently enough, this season also sees Goblin Slayer Season 2 air as well. One point in common for both franchises being a distinctly defined enemy which casual viewers need not care about subtle morality distinctions: either kill said entity or be killed in return. There's no debate about prejudice when the opponent is an archetypal stereotype. |
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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Yeah but did leave one door open with the "you humans view like that", that maybe the other side had some blame in that stuff.
Anyway as I was trying to hint at before, there is not going to be any Wiz like characters in this show. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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The episode spent most of its time illustrating what demons are, and there were other hints dropped in previous episodes. It's cut and dried to me, so I'm not sure where "prejudice" comes in. Humans aren't the only races feeling the brunt of demon invasion either, a reminder that Eisen himself is the warrior he is because he ran away from one which destroyed his village.
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1960 |
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I like how completely irredeemable demons are. Unlike in many other anime there is no misunderstanding regarding their nature and there is also no discrimination purely based on fear mongering on the human side. They simply have no empathy and see humans as a source of food and will do anything they can to win. I would say that they are not even evil, in their eyes what they are doing is natural and not even worth considering. They are a natural enemy/predator of most forms of life.
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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Looks like these demons are going to be taking care of very quickly. Not surprise if we are done with them by the end of next episode and move on to the next thing, that is what this show does.
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