Forum - View topicFrieren: Beyond Journey's End (TV).
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#8
The animators certainly have their sense of timing down pat. It is only at the very end that they reveal the episode title, which is the same as the series franchise name in Japanese. The double meaning behind Frieren's moniker is explained, although we viewers only see glimpses of what she's capable of in Lugner's memories and her impromptu fightback against Draht. If there was any ambiguity behind the nature of demons in this franchise, there shouldn't be by the end of this week. Even Lugner himself admitted they're no different from wild beasts, although there's one key difference I've noticed. Beasts don't suffer from the human condition of hubris, demons do. It is one thing to forget about the greatest slayer of demonkind after over a century of non-contact, it is quite another to assume humans don't improve magic the same way Lugner has on a daily basis. Lugner's explanation behind "standard offensive magic" fills in a hole which was left by Frieren when she talked about the history of human magic a few weeks back. He can slay dragons given the right motivation, but Stark is no different from Eisen in feeling fear when faced with strong opponents. Unlike his master, who had long ago used his fear as motivation to spur him on Stark is very human in that he needs to overcome it by his own or with help from others before he can take action. Good thing Fern isn't a coward, and it isn't the first time she's pushing him on in her own laconic way. The episode itself actually reverts to a more standard storytelling template unlike the previous weeks with its more unusual narrative arrangements. It's still good entertainment, even if some viewers have expectations that it would be something else throughout its airtime. More than enough action this week to make up for the almost complete lack of it last week, and more to come as the main trio have battles scheduled for them to clear before they can continue their journey northwards. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#9
The Guillotine Aura arc really hits a peak in this episode as Fern and Stark face off against the two remaining demons. Both of them bring their respective strengths to bear, and a big part of their victory despite the innately higher specifications of their demon opponents lies is the hubris of said opponents. Although most of the episode is devoted to their respective duels and conclusions, the rest of the episode doesn't waste any time as there are little details here and there which showcase the animators' dedication to this particular project. "Guillotine" Aura gets her name from the headless puppets she commands, thanks to her unique magic which dominates the wills of her opponents provided she has more mana than them. Although not infallible, the odds of a warrior resisting her spell long enough to land a telling blow are so slim as to be basically non-existent, which is probably why Himmel and the others didn't finish her off 80 years ago. Granat junior was one of those who had the opportunity, but he failed to capitalise on it and only his sword and heirloom were returned to his father. Lugner's hubris was made clear last episode, and this episode highlights how instrumental it is to his downfall. Fern read him right when she said he only wanted to get even for the surprise attack, and in a magic duel against a mage who can cast spells faster than the legendary Slayer who is thousands of years older than she is he found out too late he should have finished the job when he had her at his mercy. After all, if Fern is capable of defending against Qual the Sage for her first demon battle, the underling of a mere Sage of Destruction wouldn't pose a problem for her once the playing field was levelled. Stark is a coward through and through; his expression when he said he was going to beg for help every bit at odds with the visuals that came immediately before it. That said, his master trained him well. He's a vanguard for two spellcasters and is definitely the punching bag they need to keep a distance from enemies so that spells can finish the job. Not sure if he was blinded from Linie's swing, but he took plenty of solid hits (crucially missing his vitals each time) for copious bleeding yet like last week his reckless attacks win him the opening he needs. His cliff-carving training coming in very useful against a demon who patently lacks Lugner's regenerative capabilities. Linie's ability to copy the fighting style of warriors she's observed for their mana signatures being no more than a copy, and her slight build means she can't swing as hard as a centuries-old dwarf. Perhaps if she did Stark wouldn't be able to stay standing, but the Dragon Slayer proved Fern right when she asserted training wouldn't betray them when push came to shove. Just Frieren against Aura remaining, and then this arc is done. Very good battles this episode, so what will Frieren have to do when she's taking on an army of headless puppets alone? |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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An episode of mostly fighting was not something I would have expected given the first few episode of the show, but here we are. Amazing looking fights with plenty of close calls (well, for Stark at least). It also showed that demons are quite easy to become arrogant and that can easily come back to bite you. As for Frieren, I think she can easily take out her enemy, I assume that over a thousand years of magical training gets you an insane amount of mana.
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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Yup, that is what I would expect from a genius elf who has spent over a 1000 years improving her magic. Challenging her to a competition of mana is the very worst thing you could possibly do. Episode 10 was amazing in how it build up to a very strong and satisfying conclusion.
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3893 |
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You wouldn't believe how much I was laughing at how much Frieren was playing Aura like a fiddle. I especially loved when they showed the change in size of Aura's pupil when she realized that she was in over her head.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#10
In a 180 degree contrast to the fights which preceded it, the final showdown between Aura and Frieren only lasts a few seconds. Yet those few seconds have no payoff unless viewers are given a clear explanation of why Frieren has her moniker, her background and how much influence her Master Flamme had over her while she was still alive. - Why does Frieren have such a pathological hatred of demons she'll shoot them on sight? Explained. - Why does Frieren quote her master's stance on demons? Explained. - Why are demons so angry when humans "cheat" with their mana output? Explained. - How did Frieren meet Himmel and his party and get recruited on their grand quest? Explained. - What happened between Himmel's party and Aura during their first meeting 80+ years ago? Explained (there's a very split second screenshot showing what happened to Aura when the four of them took her on first time round) An episode dominated by background exposition provides a different kind of entertainment to the one which preceded it, but it only works because of the final payoff. Without using all of that exposition as the groundwork for the final denouement between Aura and Frieren, I'd imagine a lot of viewers would be downvoting the episode compared to the literal fireworks from last week. There's one matter where Frieren has disobeyed her master: taking Fern as an apprentice. Although Flamme was adamant Frieren and her would be the only ones to disgrace mages with their devious fighting style, Frieren's teaching of Fern in the exact same way her master taught her means it is now three mages who fight/fought the same way. I don't think Fern cares to be honest: she always stated becoming a first-rate mage was the only way she could think of to repay Heiter for saving her from suicide. Any demons like Lugner who insult her for her devious fighting style only need to be killed if they face her so that word doesn't get out, then she'll be safe and remain underestimated just like Flamme was. Speaking of Heiter, he claimed Flamme had 1/5th of his own mana when they first met. 0.1 * 5 = 0.5. That means he had mana capacity which was half that of Frieren, who at that point had lived for more than 920 years. (The 0.1 comes from Flamme who initiated Frieren's training regime and corroborated by Aura, who estimated Frieren couldn't have more than a 100 years worth of mana capacity). Viewers not acquainted with the source material might want to think about the implications of that more, especially when we already know that Eisen despite being retired and unable to adventure with Frieren on this journey is still capable of running across water unassisted and remains strong enough to lift boulders.
Is that how you've interpreted it? The pupils change just as the scales finally stop moving in Frieren's favour, which I interpreted as the magic of the scales taking effect and Aura falling under Frieren's mind control. We couldn't see it in previous weeks such as with Granat's son, because they were clad in full armour and the helmets obscured their faces. Frieren herself admitted the battle could have gone either way had Aura gone with waves of puppets against Frieren and then attacked Frieren using magic other than the scales, so I'm not sure where "playing her like a fiddle" comes in. Frieren has the best poker face I've ever seen in an animation, so it's impossible to read her mental state based on her emotions, just as the demons find out to their cost how even their accurate mana reading can still be fooled by an elf practising deception for over a thousand years. Episode 10 and viewers are already spoiled with so much entertainment for a two quarter season. Can't wait to see what the next story arc brings. Last edited by Harleyquin on Sat Nov 11, 2023 1:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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zfunk
Posts: 253 |
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I had a feeling these demons would be dealt with quickly. I don't know what we do next, I certainly don't think the demons in this series are much of a threat after we have seen.
I have a question about relationships, what do you think of Stark and Fern, you see any chemistry there? I am telling the ending of series is probably going to theme as senior citizens, you think they get married, or marry other people, or follow in their mentors footsteps and just focus on other stuff. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23802 |
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Man, demons are dumb. They've been fighting non-demons for over a thousand years and they've never figured out that non-demon mages are capable and willing of suppressing their mana? I guess you can argue that demons believe they can tell when a mage is suppressing but then why couldn't Aura figure out that there was a disconnect between Frieren's obvious power as a mage and the amount of mana she releases? That should have been a clue. Anyway, it's fun to watch overconfident demons get their comeuppance.
@ zfunk - personally, I'm not picking up on any StarkxFern vibes myself, probably because Fern exudes the expressive emotion of a rock. Although she's capable of expressing annoyance or irritation at Frieren that's pretty much the extent of her emotional range we've seen so far. Hard to imagine her getting squishy over anybody, including Stark. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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Nah, I get why demons do not even consider the possibility. Their whole culture/survival is prevalent on mine is bigger than yours. More mana means being stronger and thus having a better position. If you live like that for a couple dozen or hundred years than your mindset is set in stone. On the other side I doubt that there are many non demon mages who suppress their mana, let alone suppress it for a very long time so that it is not something that can be detected. Finally the demon pride is so high that when they seem to be winning they stop thinking critically.
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Beltane70
Posts: 3893 |
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Aura outright stated that there were detectable instabilities and variations of mana output when someone was suppressing their mana. Since Aura didn't detect those variations, she made the fatal error of believing that Frieren wasn't suppressing her mana. It's also quite possible that the strength of a mage's magic might not necessarily directly correlate with their amount of mana. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 1957 |
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A calm episode this week, which is welcome after all the recent action. A bit of a party to celebrate their victory and then half a year of being stuck in a small cabin during a very long and cold winter. You would think that a relatively muscular warrior would not be the first to give into the cold, but oh well. As for Kraft, given that he calls Frieren young he must be like 3.000 years old or something.
I am looking forward to Frieren trying to get her first rate magician certificate, something tells me that it will be a fun time. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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#11
After the action and drama of the last two weeks, it's a rest week for the animators as we get an episode similar to that of episode 2. Again the concept of elf-time coming up against the majority of human inhabitants who don't get to live even 1/100th of the elves being emphasised to the full. Six months stuck in a hut is nothing for Frieren if they're well stocked and have shelter, but it's hard for Stark and Fern when that's half a year of their much shorter lifespans gone because of the caprices of the weather. First time we meet another elf like Frieren, and he's just as dry as Frieren is. He thought he was the last of his kind too, after not meeting another compatriot for three centuries. He's devout like Heiter was, but properly pious without the alcoholism. And he should be, since unlike Frieren whose exploits are still remembered thanks to Himmel's narcissistic urge to have statues of the party erected throughout the land to remember their deeds any memento of Kraft's achievement has long since been abandoned and forgotten. Their almost infinite lifespans mean being forgotten at their end is far more cruel than it is for humans who take it for granted anyway. Frieren on the other hand has the memories of her former companions to take with her on her long journey, so she doesn't need faith to avoid the same fate Kraft fears. That being said, if I was in Frieren's shoes I would have accepted Kraft's offer to hear her story so that someone will remember and praise her. Frieren made the same observation when they visited the town holding the liberation festival: 80-100 years after their visit there is no guarantee the denizens would still celebrate and remember Himmel and company's deeds, let alone the statues of the four remaining intact and identifiable. It's different if your story is told to a fellow long-lived almost immortal inhabitant; they won't forget short of dementia or death and would be a far more reliable source of memory than human-made statues. But Frieren didn't care for fame to begin with and respects Heiter for listening to her life story and praising her for it. That respect influenced her decision, which I disagree with but which is more in keeping with the tone of the series. As for Heiter, he doesn't fail to surprise for an alcoholic priest. Unlike the demons in the last two episodes, he did eventually realise his read of Frieren's magic level was wrong. It might have taken him years of the ten they spent together to figure it out, but he did better than just about every demon who's faced and lost to Frieren in her long lifetime. He also appreciated just how much of a sacrifice suppressing mana for a lifetime would be for an elf, and Frieren telling him why might well have been a release for her as she never did speak to anyone after Flamme passed on. Good thing Granat gifted Stark and Fern winter clothing; without it Stark would well have died before they reached the hut. He's resistant to copious bleeding, but extreme cold hits him harder than the mages so that's probably a weakness he'd be careful to guard against if random demons in the future use ice magic against him. That insert song for this week certainly fits the atmosphere of the series, even if it's only a one-off. Animators certainly know what bells and whistles to add to give the final product proper polish. Then I look it up and realise it was the special ED song for the 2 hour marathon preview for some broadcast channels. Either way, it's an inspired choice for that montage scene. If this week is just an intermission before the next arc, then what's coming up is most likely the trio reaching the city of magic so that the mages can qualify for first grade. Otherwise they'll keep getting trapped in northern cities because of the ongoing demon conflict and neither Stark nor Fern are going to countenance years of waiting in one place. Fern is technically certified higher than Frieren, which is so hilariously wrong that this has to be set right eventually. Fern herself definitely isn't third grade now that she's faced off against Qual and survived and killed Lugner. So if both of them qualify as first grade mages then they can cover Stark's passport requirements. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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I don't understand why neither Frieren nor Fern conjured up a warming spell to cure Stark's hypothermia. Fern can light fires, and Frieren has collected every spell she has come across for an entire millennium. The whole scene didn't really make much sense.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2858 |
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If the two of them cast a spell, there's no setup for one of the episode's comedy moments. This is going to be lost on a lot of viewers, but a lot of Japanese viewers found the scene with Stark's dream and him waking up next to a half-naked Kraft absolutely hilarious. In-franchise explanation: 1. There may not be a spell to directly increase the body heat of a target. 2. If there is such a spell, neither Frieren nor Fern know how to cast it. 3. Frieren has only been actively indulging in her spell collection hobby for 108 years up to the episode and she most certainly has not collected every spell known to mankind and demonkind during this period. Refer to the flashback with the shaved ice, she told Heiter she didn't know a spell to cast syrup out of thin air to go with their new shaved ice spell. |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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Fern has fire-casting powers. She lit the fire in the cabin. |
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