Forum - View topicNisemonogatari (with index).
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I'm gonna have to bring some popcorn with me the next time I read one of your posts on Nisemono, Gemini.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15492 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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That was some pretty cool insight GeminiDS85, I like the idea of how deep the whole fake thing can go, and the possibility of the last arc being one big self reference.
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Art-respecting_Philistine
Posts: 3 |
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New here so I hope no one minds the intrusion, but I wanted to offer some insight on why the two series seem so different while apparently running much of the same themes.
They tell you their respective stories from a completely different view. Now let me explain to you how; Why it may appear that the art direction was toned down in Nise, it is as ever present, if not more, as it is in Bake, but it serves a completely different purpose. Both Nise and Bake have surreal worlds, it's impossible not to notice the empty streets and halls and the way they are portrayed serves a very vital funcition in both the series, in fact, it's the one thing that sets them miles apart. The art direction, the surreal world, they are your window to a deeper level of story that unfolds. In Bakemonogatari the world was empty, but it was not a complete void, it showed cars and bikes, but they were all the same, repeating without an end, without being able to distinguish them or tell who they belong to. Why? So the problems of the characters could be alienated from everything that is not important now, even the causes of the problem itself if needed. Only what's important now, only that which has value is presented in the world they are inhabiting which leaves an incredible, yes nothing short of incredible, amount of room for tampering with the characters involved in the situation at hand. By looking what's present you have complete clarity of the emotions flowing between the characters, you understand their relationship and you get to know them by seeing how they build it, how they interact to develop the relationship while you recognize its nature from the surroundings. Nisemonogatari takes that away, it doesn't allow you to spectre the world, no, it binds you to the main character and you see the world as a reflection of his emotional state. In Nise you watch the world from the sidelines but the perception of the world is that of Koyomi. When Koyomi has a clear head the world appears normal, although the only thing you see in the world is what currently matters to Koyomi. Meanwhile when he is emotionally confused, when he isn't sure about his choices, then the world bends to his emotion. Struggling with his sister viewpoint? A battle rages under a complex road structure, as his path here is unclear. His sister makes good points and they deliver terrifying punches to his ideals? They manifest as his sister beating him up with incredible and unexpected power, far beyond that of a human. Dispute is cleared and everything agreed on? The complicated and overlapping roads are destroyed, rubble which is the leftover pain of the argument remains, and only one road is traversable as Koyomi knows what to do and that one path for him is clear. So the gist of it would be that Bake allowed you to view the bonds between the characters while Nise gives you insight of Arararagi's (sorry, I stuttered) emotional state at any given moment. Hope this helped. |
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kaydub
 Posts: 318 Location: Cincinnati, OH |
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I'm watching Bake again and the more I watch, the more I begin to appreciate Nise for what it is rather than compare it to what Bake was. Specifically, I'm beginning to realize that everything in Nise is fake.
I can't really put it into words as well as you guys have been doing (probably because it's late) and I apologize if my examples aren't so good, but for me personally, Nise makes a lot more sense when I look at it through the lens of "everything is fake," and I can better appreciate the underlying genius behind NisiOisin's writing and Shinbo's direction. A good example that I saw brought up in a recent blog comment is the architecture of the Araragi household and the rest of the city as a whole. At first I thought it was completely random and that Shinbo was just going overboard, but after reading that comment, I realize that it wasn't intended to be random, it was intended to be fake. I like Philistine's take on the world being a reflection of the characters' perspective because I think it illustrates my thoughts perfectly. When the world is being seen as a reflection of a character's emotional state, you're not seeing an accurate representation of the world. Essentially, the world you are seeing is an impostor taking the place of the normal world. It's not real. Similarly, the portrayal of the relationship between Araragi and his sisters is fake because it is a reflection of his desire to protect them. His obligation to protect Karen and Tsukihi is so strong that his relationship with them seemingly oversteps the boundaries of familial love into the realm of romantic love, but that isn't actually the case. What we're seeing is an exaggeration of his relationship with his sisters, an impostor. I'm still trying to think of how to explain the relationship between Senjougahara and Hanekawa, because I can't bring myself to believe that Senjougahara of all people could be that afraid of Hanekawa as to become downright subservient, especially seeing as how Hanekawa is her most legitimate competition as Araragi's love interest. Gotta be fake. I do think that Sengoku's interest in Araragi is real though... poor girl. That forbidden closet has got to be some Oreimo-esque shrine to Araragi. Or maybe she's just addicted to eroge and doesn't want him to find out... hmm... |
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simmeh
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So, rather than going into long, elaborate detail about the hidden meanings 'n such in Nise, I think I'll just ask: is there a comprehensive list of shoutouts and references in Nise (and Bake)? I can sometimes pick them out, but not always.
For example, I found that Araragi's facial expression in that very final scene at the end of the closing credits of Nise to be nearly identical to Kenshin's in the closing moments of the first Rurouni Kenshin opening, and I don't think it was accidental. |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Replica of Sengoku's Bedroom and other Nise items.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/51329660.html |
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Etrien
 Posts: 525 Location: Tokyo, Japan |
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I fell about a month behind, so I only just now got around to finishing the show. Honestly, I was a bit bored with it for the first 5 or so episodes, and I wasn't too keen on just how fanservice driven it had been becoming. But, it really grew on me by the end. I don't know how much of this was affected by my mood or other peripheral circumstances, but I actually now think I liked it more than Bakemonogatari.
I was always in a strange camp, though, because Bakemonogatai itself only settled in my "good but not great" category...and I always had this nagging feeling that I should have liked it more than I did. Even though I found it to be interesting, artistic, and compelling...I think it still felt, to me, as if it were trying too hard and was too forceful about what it wanted to be rather than what it was. Nisemonogatari, in contrast, felt like it had finally come into its own. I disagree that it was less artistic or experimental than Bakemonogatari when taken as a whole. Instead, I think it felt more refined, as though the staff and story were both finally comfortable with what they wanted to do and how they wanted to do it. But really, I can see plenty of ways that this opinion might be subjectively biased. I also suspect that if I were to revisit Bake after finishing Nise, I might have renewed appreciation for it. I've had fun reading the various analyses that people have posted about the series. There've been many good observations that have certainly made me think a few things over. Though, despite all the keen insights over symbolism in the background, I never saw any mention of this guy from Episode 9: 
Sure, it may not be deep, but I thought it was fun. 
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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Shinobu stopping her sulking is the most important thing to happen in this season. Anyway Kizu is up next and that's generally considered the best novel in the series, so we'll have quite a step up in quality since Nise 2 is generally regarded as the worst. (SHAFT must've agreed, giving it 4 episodes)
Trust me, your mind will be blown lol. Though it's more for how it helps resolve something as opposed to what is in it. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18213 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'm reviving this thread because I've noticed a couple of flaws in the recent American Blu-Ray release and I want to find out if they are "known" problems or just particular to my copy.
In two different places the encoding for the disks briefly breaks down entirely, to the point where the image on the screen is scrambled and stuttering. I don't remember where the first incident happens, but the second incident is in episode 10, right at the point where Koyomi is trying to attack Hachikuji. Anyone else experienced (or not experienced) this? |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Key: I just checked episode 10 on my copy and there's no problem. There's an intentional moment of static when spoiler[Araragi thinks Tsukihi has been killed and flies into a rage]. But I doubt you're referencing that.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Nothing was wrong with my copy of the show.
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Darksorrow29
Posts: 412 Location: United States |
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I popped in my Nisemonogatari bluray in my PS3 last night to take a look. Fast forwarded it a bit around episode 10 and everything seemed fine to me.
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Akito Kinomoto
 Posts: 48 Location: Pretentious University |
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Nisemonogatari is the sequel to Bakemonogatari and focuses on the story arcs of Karen Araragi and Tsukihi Araragi. Koyomi Araragi’s family has gotten involved with the supernatural so it’s up to him to help them as he helped Hitagi Senjougahara, Nadeko Sengoku, Mayoi Hachikuji, Suruga Kanbaru, and Tsubasa Hanekawa. And spends as much time on them as he does Karen and Tsukihi.
Keep in mind: this is an 11 episode anime that spotlights seven characters equally despite the story arcs being about only two of them. This wouldn’t be a problem if the literal five out of seven character interactions Koyomi goes through contributed to the story but unfortunately that’s only a third of the time. When Koyomi isn’t getting advice from the other characters about Karen and Tsukihi’s problems, he’s in pointless conversations and fanservice scenes. The pointless conversations and fanservice scenes can’t be for character development because their development peaked in Bakemonogatari, they can’t be for reintroducing the characters because there are scenes where at least two of them are together and thus could have reintroduced more in one shot, and they can’t be for its own sake because Nisemonogatari has the pretense of a plot that gets overshadowed and makes most of each episode’s content to be filler. And despite Koyomi lacking Meme Oshino’s help, it shouldn’t take seven and four episodes to resolve Karen and Tsukihi’s problems because he at least has Shinobu Oshino’s valuable insight being a supernatural being herself, making what little advice he gets from the other characters somewhat pointless. Not that the conclusion to Karen and Tsukihi’s story arcs is good, though. The latter ends in philosophical talk that’s difficult to take seriously because of how bad the rest of the show is and the former is even worse because it turns out to be a wild goose chase. It would actually be good if it didn’t have filler to pad itself out or the conversations and fanservice wouldn’t be pointless if the show didn’t have the pretense of a plot. But as it stands, this anime has nothing real to show for itself; kind of ironic considering a recurring theme in this show is fakeness being more genuine than realness and “nise” roughly translating to “fake.” Yeah, Nisemonogatari is real; real annoying, real bad, and real pointless. |
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