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INTEREST: Doujinshi Artist Claims Downloads of Work Are 10-Times Higher Than Sales

@Juno016:

Ultimately downloads don't matter though. Only so many people can attend Comiket, but a lot of doujinshi can only be bought there. So this is a case of demand outstripping supply. As long as the artist sells enough of the copies they brought to Comiket then they should be fine and still recoup a decent amount of their costs. The internet is not the market that doujinshi artists sell to, Comiket is, so artists shouldn't care what the internet does so long as they sell enough copies at Comiket.

If this bellyacher fellow had boxes and boxes of leftover copies after Comiket, but saw large amounts of downloads, then he might - just might - have something resembling a legitimate grievance. But he didn't say he had lots of unsold copies, did he? No, he did not. I highly doubt he had enough unsold copies to sell to everyone who downloaded his doujinshi. What it sounds to me like is that he is being greedy. He's also being stupid.

Blanchimont wrote:

Not all doujinshi is hentai. Granted, a lot is.

You could have said, that from time to time a doujinshi comes out that isn't hentai and you would have been right on the mark.

I don't understand something here.
How a thief who stolen something can accuse other thiefs?

Many doujins popularity comes mostly from what kind of characters as parody they use in them, and no doujin artist holds any kind of copyright or got permission to use characters from popular anime/manga however he/she likes(aside of Touhou fandom where ZUN said that doujin artists can do whatever they want).

Since most of doujin are parody fanbooks done for fans, they should be freely distributed, and not sold, since I don't think that in doujin price there is a fee included for original owners of used characters.

In case of original creations such artists have full rights to be mad about their work being stolen and illegaly distributed, but not in case of doujin parodies of popular series.

I don't understand something here.
How a thief who stolen something can accuse other thiefs?

Many doujins popularity comes mostly from what kind of characters as parody they use in them, and no doujin artist holds any kind of copyright or got permission to use characters from popular anime/manga however he/she likes(aside of Touhou fandom where ZUN said that doujin artists can do whatever they want).

Since most of doujin are parody fanbooks done for fans, they should be freely distributed, and not sold, since I don't think that in doujin price there is a fee included for original owners of used characters.

In case of original creations such artists have full rights to be mad about their work being stolen and illegaly distributed, but not in case of doujin parodies of popular series.

yu3lora wrote:

This is one of the reason why I quit my dream as a comic artist. Still, theirs more opportunity their for the artists like, autocad, graphic artist or web design. All you need is determination and hard work.

You did the right thing, if your dream was more to make big bucks than passion than love to draw, then money as a consequence but not the main drive, then you made the right choice instead of later complaining and whining like most of today's supposed "artists", this includes musicians, singers, painters, etc.

There is a reason why in the past and even immediate past, we had such great artists, there was sincere love, passion for what they loved, if they made money great if not it was never enough reason to quit their dream, most of the greatest artists of all time in different mediums were poor and it was never about making money or quitting, that is why now their love and dedication has granted them "IMMORTALITY" and they will be forever remembered.

Many of today's artists are made of cheap plastic, including those that do make their dream come true: be famous and rich.

Forgive the hypocrisy, but it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter.

No matter how unrealistic it is to think that a bunch of downloads could convert into sales...

...just taking a look at the numbers is highly discouraging and upsetting to the person who put the effort into making it.

For one, it's not like the guy has a way of spreading his work elsewhere...

...and the doors to open that up for a profit are pretty limited, so...

...you're basically looking at a number that tells you, "People are downloading things you made, but you have no way of knowing why they're downloading it or how to turn that number into profit.
I'm not saying it's ABOUT the money. It's not like his frustration is going to make him quit doing what he's doing. But the money is pretty important. If he gained enough profit to live off of, he could basically devote his life to manga/doujinshi, which is obviously a passion of his if he's in Comiket. As of the usual situation, doujinshi artists either quit after life takes their time away from their passion work or they become official. Other doujin works have a better chance of turning profit, at least.

So... yeah. A lot of people go into it with love and passion directing them, and they survive like that for a while. But reality is pretty harsh. The reality of the situation won't be turning download numbers into profits anytime soon, so the doujinshi artists shouldn't really have to pay attention to the numbers of downloads, but the moment they do, I don't see how ANYONE could not be upset. It looks almost like, "You want to be famous enough to make a living off of what you do? Well, too bad. Here's your fame. Keep doing what you do for love and passion until you're broke. We'll keep our money."

Actually, the majority of Doujinshi IS non-pornographic. The only reason you don't believe that to the case is because the majority of the ones that get scanned, put on the internet, and get purchased by foreigners ARE pornographic.

And it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter.

Wait, that's a bit convoluted.

So I'll just say that I think you're flat-out wrong. Downloads only matter if you personally let them matter to you; they aren't intrinsically important.

He should be proud, honoured and excited, just as the original creator of the franchise that the doujinshi artist "borrowed" from should be. It's proof that he wrote a good manga that lots of people want to read.

Of course he does. There is no law of the universe which states that Comiket is the only place a person can sell doujinshi for crying out loud.

I thought it wasn't about profit? I thought it was about the love of the franchise, the love of creating manga, and merely making some of your costs back? The crowds that attend Comiket should be more than enough to do that. As I said before, he didn't complain about having too much unsold stock, which makes it seem likely that he's just being greedy.

If he wants to be a professional manga artist then he should make his own original stuff instead of doujinshi. It seems incredible that you'd think that a person should have a right to make a living from ripping off someone else's work.

facepalm.jpg

Only an incredibly tiny minority of people get to turn their skills at making doujinshi into an actual career. For every success story like CLAMP there's thousands of wannabes whiling away with little financial reward, and that was true even before the internet, so you can't blame it on torrents. Anyone who gets into the fandom thinking that they'll be able to make doujinshi professionally - as in a fulltime job - is crazy; the odds are too heavily stacked against them. If they are lucky and very talented then they might be able to turn pro but most will not. And therefore anyone who does want to make doujinshi should realise that it isn't going to be a profit-making venture. They make their doujinshi not because it will bring them money but because they want to make and share it. Because they love their fandom and creating something that other people will enjoy. And if they have to work for months in their tiny drafty apartment eating cup ramen, then so be it. They chose that lifestyle after all, knowing full well that expecting a career out of it is folly.

He should be proud, honoured and excited, just as the original creator of the franchise that the doujinshi artist "borrowed" from should be. It's proof that he wrote a good manga that lots of people want to read.

Just a suggestion: you might want to avoid comparing illegal downloads to rape. No matter how rational your argument, it's going to get ignored because your statement sounds hysterically disproportionate. You might as well have dropped a Godwin.

If they did not get proper compensation for their work and the cost of production in sales (many groups do not--and they do it more because they simply want to... others do it because it's a good bridge into the industry... and others do it because they want to make a living off of their hard work and passion), then you can bet they'd likely have stopped long ago.

But every ounce of actual physical work put into the stories most of the time are original. Sometimes, they're so strangely different from the derived work, it's conceptually possible to replace the characters in the story with characters from any other series, including original characters. And sometimes, these doujinshi are, frankly, intense and well-written. Sometimes more so than the derived work. And the artist/author of the doujinshi is surely the one who made that possible.

People who read doujinshi aren't doing so to throw the money they'd spend on the original work into something else. They're usually reading doujinshi to see expansions of the work beyond the original creator's intent. To see possibilities not actually possible. And unlike typing up fanfiction, the costs of making doujinshi are much higher--especially when printed. So I can most definitely see the woes of artists who feel that they're fighting a losing battle against a foe they can't even touch.

Again this BS...

Anyone know how long it took until ignorant people and industries stopped saying video tapes were killing movies or radio was killing music?

Just a suggestion: you might want to avoid comparing illegal downloads to rape. No matter how rational your argument, it's going to get ignored because your statement sounds hysterically disproportionate. You might as well have dropped a Godwin.