Forum - View topicEnough tsundere already!
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6874 Location: Kazune City |
|
|||||
Same here, minus the avatar part. Ever since seeing Shana in 2007, I've found it extremely cute to see normally bad-ass/mean girls blushing and stuttering. Do I expect reality to be like that? No. But that's a deficiency of reality 
Sadly, yes. |
||||||
|
||||||
KanjiiZ
 Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
|
|||||
|
I have no issue with a couple of tsundere roaming around, but when they're in every single anime of every single season, that's where I draw the line. The idea of a girl who hates you but likes you is a trope that needs to end. It's just not cute or funny anymore once you've seen the same gag a million times.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
You call it realistic and I'll call it nerd wish fulfillment. She goes from stapling his mouth to falling into his lap. She didn't play hard to get at all. The change was far too surreal for me to give it any sort of credence at all. But I mean, that's fine that others are okay with it. I suppose a girl just losing completely all aggressiveness and making all the moves so the guy doesn't even have to do anything to complete the relationship does have its appeal. Okay, so he did something. He spoiler[caught her, got stapled, and took her to the priest dude]. That was the extent of his effort with Hitagi. |
||||||
|
||||||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23857 |
|
|||||
Bullshit. spoiler[He cured her of her affliction]. Hey, fine if you don't like the show, but at least don't distort what actually happened to fit your own notion. I've seen you do the same thing with Toradora! and its a really cheap tactic. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||
The Anime actually tones it down a bit. In the Light Novels, Hitagi spoiler[becomes a "typical" girl who sends Koyomi cute messages filled with emoticons and calls him by a lovey-dovey nickname.] Definitely a lot more girly-girly than the Anime's version of her, although whether that is an improvement or not is a matter of personal taste in women. Me? I wouldn't want Anime Hitagi as my girlfriend, but she does seem to be more interesting and and possess a stronger presence than Light Novel Hitagi. So, I'd rather watch the former, but date the latter (assuming she actually existed, which she of course does not). |
||||||
|
||||||
poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
Thats why i never really considered her tsundere, but since when was it not realistic to be attracted to someone from day one? Seriously its much more realistic than two people dancing around each-other for months. Hitagi's tsun tsun phase was just the first episode, after that she was just kind of a ball buster but was openly attracted to him. Once again though I have to emphasize that what you are describing is way closer to reality I don't know what kind of hoops you think men usually go through to get women to be attracted to them but it usually takes alot less than saving her from a curse that has been ailing her for years. In my experience it usually just takes a couple of overpriced drinks and a few good jokes @Blood- I think what is more disturbing is his distorted view of realistic romances. If someone falling for you quickly is nerd wish fulfillment then he must be a very lonely person because I consider that reality |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
Really? I'll have to watch the 2nd episode of Bakemonogatari again then. Cause it was in my memory that spoiler[Hitagi cured her affliction, with the help of the priest.]. What was it that Koyomi did, exactly? Please help me remember, Blood-. EDIT: Cause this is what I remember: spoiler[Priest tells her to go through some sort of ritual to summon the crab (he later says this is superfluous). Hitagi goes through her memories and remembers how her mom was into the cult and that she brought home a man who almost (or did he? I can't remember) raped Hitagi. The "weight" therefore that Hitagi had lost was due to her emotional loss from the experience, as well as how she separated from her mom. The crab offered to take that burden from her, (I think this is a wordplay with the kanji of weight meaning feelings as an alternate reading or something), which is how she got to her weightless state. So how did she return to normal? By simply accepting what had happened and the crab returning those feelings to her.]. Am I wrong? Did Koyomi do something? Cause all I remember him doing was standing around. |
||||||
|
||||||
ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
|
|||||
The use of tropes and cliches won't end. While the literary device of hate turning to love can be used in comedies and comedic situations it is not a gag bit all the time. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23857 |
|
|||||
|
@ Megiddo - it's been a while since I've seen the episode myself. The important act that Koyomi performed was not leaving her alone when he had good reason to (the aforementioned stapler in the mouth being one of them). It was made clear he was the only one who tried to reach out to her instead of leaving her to her own devices. He believed the priest dude could help cure her and made sure that she got there. That is what precipitated her attraction for him.
The way you make it sound is that she want from super defensive to being a cuddle toy instantly, which is a gross distortion. Even after she showed "interest" in him, it was always somewhat ambiguous and menacing. spoiler[It was only in the final broadcast episode when Hitagi brought him to her secret place that he - and by extension we the audience - got unambiguous proof that she had genuine and non-threatening feelings for him (personally, I thought she was leading him through the woods to chop his head off).] But as I say, I don't believe you are interested in any kind of true debate. You didn't like the show, so it suits you to distort the real emotional dynamic that I think was pretty obvious to most other viewers. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
thats a good point, and it can and is done well over most media but most anime tsundere is not done well. In fact thats why I want to point out things like Bakemongotari that do in fact do it well, why anime creators think they need to drag these kinds of things out is beyond me |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
|
No, no. I completely agree with you. He was the first to actually stick with her through her tsun-tsun phase. Though, of course, he had the advantage of catching her (which I noted was one of the things he did do to attain her affection), thus realizing that there was something wrong with her. He also had the advantage of spoiler[having some vampire blood in him, which gives him some regenerative powers, so when she stapled him it didn't do all that much besides the temporary pain] (again, I noted this). Lastly, he also had the advantage of knowing some outlandish priest dude who just may be able to help Hitagi, and him taking Hitagi to the priest thus ended his involvement with resolving her affliction. So, I'm pretty sure that I got those three things right.
Perhaps it was you who had "distorted" things when you claimed that it was Koyomi who cured Hitagi's affliction? Honestly, I like Hitagi. I like some arcs of Bakemonogatari (Suruga Monkey was written so well and I enjoyed the Hitagi Crab as well) but admittedly I don't like some arc (Mayoi Snail, Nadeko Snake, and Tsubasa Cat can all take a hike). But as I said, I found Hitagi's change from stapler-wielder to spoiler["I'll be your girlfriend"] (said during Mayoi Snail, when she said she would grant any wish of Koyomi's) to be far too surreal. Am I not allowed that opinion? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||
|
I think I've liked almost every tsundere character I've seen. I either find them awesome in general (Hitagi, Taiga) or just incredibly cute.
I'd leave Sakura from Naruto out of this. I wouldn't really call her tsundere unless she secretly likes Naruto? (Which could be the case and I just don't know it yet, I haven't seen the series past the filler yet). Her relationship with Sasuke is more unrequited but destructive and annoying insofar as he's really not deserving of attention with his attitude. He's the definition of emo, and she's pulled down by liking him (at least as he is most of the time).
Absolutely, and I'd agree with you except for the "too" part of it. I found it surreal but I didn't find it ridiculous considering part of how she thinks about herself and also because Koyomi is legitimately cool. He's one of my favorite male leads. Last edited by Xanas on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
|
|||||
I don't think I can get into whose idea of tsundere is right and whose is wrong. All I will say is just because you like the way tsundere was done in one case does not make that the right way to do tsundere across the board. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
KanjiiZ
Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
|
|||||
|
In a response to Zalis I don't think real tsundere even exist in real life. On Earth if a girl hates you she hates you. She doesn't secretly love you!
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||
Art imitates life in most areas. I am fairly certain tsundere is no exception in this regard. I am sure it isn't as common and isn't quite as simplistic as the dynamic in anime but I wouldn't be so sure that there is no truth to it. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group