Forum - View topicPhantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (TV)
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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Wait, I'm sorry-did you seriously just call Phantom of the Requiem a harem? ROFL In all seriousness, if you really do think so, please convince me. |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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In all fairness, even though the story really did a good job hiding it by not building a harem for Reiji, if you're not new to anime, the game origins of Phantom (and the different romantic interest arcs) are pretty easy to see. I would not go so far as to call it a harem show, though, but maybe that's what CL was getting at.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23859 |
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I think part of the problem is that nobody has come up with a clear, widely accepted definition of what a harem show is. I get the sense that, for some people, if more than one female shows a romantic interest in the male lead, it is automatically a "harem" show. Someone recently characterized Toradora! as a harem show and I really don't think it is, even though there are at least three females who (ultimately) seem to be romantically interested in the lead.
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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What's so hard to define about it? The story revolves around a single, male protagonist that is surrounded by walking cliches (er girls) that for some reason can't help but be attracted to him for some inexplicable reason. Vomit may ensue after viewing.
EDIT: Oh and I did play the VN (game) for a bit, and the atmosphere is not all that different from the anime. So I don't think you're right in assuming that the VN is harem all the way. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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That's precisely one of the main reasons why I enjoyed the game and, by extension, the anime as well. It doesn't feel like Reiji is being chased around by girls for no reason nor is he actively trying to gain their attention because he has nothing better to do. The relationships he establishes are a more or less natural result of the story that's being told and the choices that make him follow each particular path aren't necessarily immediately obvious. |
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Veers
Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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lhernan02
Posts: 196 |
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I had stayed away from this thread to not spoil the series since I was really starting to like the mystery angle of it, so I will make a comment post then follow up with a rant post. Hopefully this is not a dead thread already
While not a "normal rom-com" harem, the show does fit into the stardard harem mode (specially since it is a VN conversion which normally merge the various story lines to create a harem anyway): a) the girls were all terminally attached to Zwei (I counted a total of 4 main girls and 2 secondary girls, if we were talking about story paths) and b) Zwei was pretty much your standard harem lead (at times it was very difficult figuring out what any of these girls saw in him and he could never make a clean break with any of them). Last edited by lhernan02 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lhernan02
Posts: 196 |
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Now the rant post.
Why must they always F**K UP series in the last 2-5 minutes. 26 episodes of ups and downs, the series is finally in safe "purchase as soon as the box set comes out" territory...and then...BANG...Thank you very much, you have just wasted 10 hours of your life, now move on to the next series and make an angry post in a forum, good night. spoiler[Would it have killed them to just end it at the 20:30 point, it would have been a nice open end, we could just make up the rest, it would not have been the best end, but it sure beats "they went through all this and are finally free, and now they die." ] I am sure some people will explain that it was a necessary end for this or that "grand" reason, but remember, these are TV shows, not philosophical theses, if it fails to entertain, then it sucks, and, unluckily, for me this series sucked. Now I just move on and look at the bright side, I just saved myself at least $50. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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Well, I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. In my personal case, I've learned that entertainment value doesn't need to be synonymous with a strict fulfillment of my expectations or, in short, what I would like to see.
Other than that...I've already provided my own thoughts on the ending, as it were, so that's out of the way. Though I would have to dispute some of your statements because the term "harem" implies a static collection of girls whose almost exclusive purpose is to lust after the male lead or, strictly speaking, that it is actually possible for the main character to end up with all of them. The existence of a "harem ending" would come to mind, no? But even the original game doesn't have one and there's actually a lot of overlap in terms of what happens, as far as the bulk of the main story is concerned, instead of having no sense of cohesion whatsoever. There were different narrative reasons that made some sense in context, as opposed to being purely arbitrary, for the different females involved to develop an attachment to Zwei (or vice versa) and there's really not much of a point in deconstructing everything to such a degree that important details no longer matter. Of course, nothing is going to be absolutely realistic in every way, shape or form, but I thought this aspect of the story came closer to representing something of a compromise, at least when compared to other shows. If you're going to label this a "harem" then pretty much any other work of fiction where there are multiple real or potential romantic interests would qualify as one too, which makes the word ultimately meaningless in my opinion. I think there's a difference between having certain elements and being completely dominated by them. |
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I think it's pretty amusing you (lhernan02) classify Phantom as a harem; I think I already posted on this issue already so I'm not going to spell it out again.
Your rage at the ending also seems off charted in "unreasonable" territory and it seems your attitude about endings is rather closed minded. It was the creator's choice to end as he pleases, I thought he did a satisfactory job. If the only reason you refuse to buy Phantom when it's released on DVD is because of the "controversial" ending, than I'd say you're throwing a tantrum. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7986 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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That's kind of like saying "Good job, random homicidal sociopath! You killed those people real good, here's your get out of jail free card for accomplishing what you set out to do."
Things don't work that way for a reason. Justification is not an option with this ending either. spoiler[If the antagonist(s) win and the protagonist(s) die randomly for shock value like some kind of afterthought,] the series' or film ending is seriously flawed and when weighed with the rest of the production brings it down and keeps me from rating it anything higher than Very Good. Last edited by Kruszer on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lhernan02
Posts: 196 |
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I don't see why not, it fits in the general "harem" net (several females obsessed with male lead, indecisive male lead), now if you go for strict "Tenchi" interpretation, then no it does not fit.
I don't see why you find it so unreasonable. I find it pointless to invest emotionally in characters spoiler[that are then thrown away in the last 30 seconds just "because"]. You are free to have another point of view and enjoy this otherwise good series, but for me it is a deal breaker. If I could have found a justification for the end, I would have since I liked the series, butspoiler[ as much as I think about it, it was purely gratuitous. If the point is you pay for your crimes, then how come Inferno ends on top? If the point is Inferno (or some other faction) tracks them down and kills them, why there, middle of BFE and not HK or Japan, and if they could track them so far why could they not get them on the steamer out of Japan? Why kill them when they are finally free and able to move on? In the end it all comes down to a "check out this ending, cool yeah? OK, lets go for it" decision by the makers.] Finally, while I would not acuse you of throwing a tantrum, why such a hissy fit over me (some miscellanous netizen) not liking the series. I don't like it for the reasons I gave, you like it for the reasons you gave, now lets all be friends. |
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egocentric
 Posts: 19 |
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Well, the dictionary says otherwise:
As you can see, it says "sexual partners". And in case you're capable of understanding the word "sexual", then you'd know nothing sexual happened between the 3 girls and Zwei.
For some reason I agree with you, somehow. Well, it wasn't that pointless, at least that way we won't expect a second season. At least like that we got a satisfying ending, something getting harder and harder to happen in most anime, nowadays.
I, thankfully, refuse. |
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lhernan02
Posts: 196 |
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Of course not, great entertainment surpasses expectations you may not even have had or fails to meet your expectations in a way that you end up changing your expectations. My main issue is the whole pointlessness of it. spoiler[Why kill them? the show is over, you have 30 seconds left, they fulfilled their dreams and now they can ride off into the sunset. The viewer can kill them off when they reach Ulan Bator, have them slip on a banana peel on the road and break their necks, have them move to Tokyo and live with Mio as a threesome, or whatever crazy or normal future the viewer wants. There is absolutely no need to close off the series like that in the last 30 seconds. This is one of the few shows where an open ending would have been perfect since any close was bound to be anticlimactic.] |
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I have this wonderful ability to receive focus fire when it comes to forums. It seems my magic is still working in this thread. Or did you just not care to respond to the other posters?
Several? By that you mean, Cal and Ein? Claudia is somewhat debatable, as I think she was just using Reiji. Reiji was never indecisive; his love towards Cal was a love as sister and brother. Therefore, we are now left with just Ein. So 1 for sure romantic interest and another that is debatable is all of the sudden a harem. Not to mention Reiji does not seem "indecisive" to me at all. Just "because"? It made bloody sense, those two worked for a well established syndicate and they were both wanted dead. They have killed countless people, so by no means were they innocent bystanders just caught in the crossfire. No, their hands are plenty soiled. Your reasoning seems a little underage; just because the story ended up killing off two of the main characters at the end does not mean they must in turn somehow magically turn Inferno upside it's head to coincide with the theme you mentioned previously. I find it amusing you take the somewhat insulting comment I tossed your way and threw it back at me. Reminds me of elementary school "I'm rubber you're glue" type argument. I'm having a debate with you, not a tantrum fest. Discrediting an entire series because the ending isn't a happy one is the justification for the tantrum comment. I'm not even sure if you understand my position as to what I do and do not like about this show so I think it's unfair of you to say that you know. If you have read it and have a decent idea, I apologize in advance. |
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