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Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (TV).


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Noctis313



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:59 pm Reply with quote
lol, it seems kinda obvious to me that goldov is the 2nd fake
-he would do anything for nachetanya
-he spent time alone with her, so she could have pursuaded him on following her plan
-all that amazement with the reveal couldve been faked so he could obtain the trust of the fellow braves, everything part of nachetanya's plan, in case she was discovered
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11415
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:06 pm Reply with quote
Darkmagick wrote:
Vaisaga wrote:
That's what I thought at first, but it's not like he confessed to her anything. She already knew how he felt without him saying anything.

My guess is that he said something that went beyond a mere confession of love. Though I'm really not sure what it could have been that would have made him a poor choice as an ally for Nachetanya - normally I'd think that those sorts of declarations of devotion would make him more trustworthy and reliably manipulable.

There was more to it than what he said to her. She said she would have told him if he'd just done what she said without asking questions. Then she laughs and says she didn't expect him to tell her that.

So for me the question is what did she tell him to do that he balked at? Whatever he said sounds like it was part of his refusal (or questioning of the order/task).

I haven't had time to go back to see, but I suspect it's in one of those scenes when they were alone together looking for Adlet. Or we were never privy to it because it happened back around the time when she sent him out to find the Brave Killer.

Goldov was my runner up 7th, and now he's moved into first. Nacho told him that if she had been chosen, then of course he had. Since she wasn't chosen, that line makes it seem likely he wasn't either. But I don't think either of them knew the other was the fake, because I think they had completely different and unrelated reasons for their pretense.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:31 am Reply with quote
Really can't praise this show enough. Then only thing that could hurt it in the long term is if they're were no future seasons, because then important details would be left unexplained.

Introducing and establishing Rolonia gives me confidence the show will go on.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:34 am Reply with quote
Noctis313 wrote:
lol, it seems kinda obvious to me that goldov is the 2nd fake
-he would do anything for nachetanya
-he spent time alone with her, so she could have pursuaded him on following her plan
-all that amazement with the reveal couldve been faked so he could obtain the trust of the fellow braves, everything part of nachetanya's plan, in case she was discovered


The two of them are so strong combined that they could easily have killed most of not all the other 5 braves if they worked together.

Besides, Goldov is the one that hesitated to kill Adlet's when he had the golden opportunity to do so without letting him ruin the whole plan.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:39 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:

There was more to it than what he said to her. She said she would have told him if he'd just done what she said without asking questions. Then she laughs and says she didn't expect him to tell her that.

So for me the question is what did she tell him to do that he balked at? Whatever he said sounds like it was part of his refusal (or questioning of the order/task).

I haven't had time to go back to see, but I suspect it's in one of those scenes when they were alone together looking for Adlet. Or we were never privy to it because it happened back around the time when she sent him out to find the Brave Killer.

Goldov was my runner up 7th, and now he's moved into first. Nacho told him that if she had been chosen, then of course he had. Since she wasn't chosen, that line makes it seem likely he wasn't either. But I don't think either of them knew the other was the fake, because I think they had completely different and unrelated reasons for their pretense.


It needs to be restated that the conditions for being "chosen" are (A) you must be strong and (B) you must have a desire to defeat the demon king. There's little doubt nachentanya could have been chosen had she truly desired to be a brave, but obviously she was disqualified because of her motives. We don't really know Goldov yet, but he's obviously strong enough to qualify.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11415
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:48 am Reply with quote
That incriminates him even more, since his greatest desire seems to be to protect his Princess rather than kill the Maoh. I mean, he was ready to follow her even after she was outed, if she would just have explained herself to him. Well, I guess he wasn't on board for the half a million people dying plan, but other than that...
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:54 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
That incriminates him even more, since his greatest desire seems to be to protect his Princess rather than kill the Maoh. I mean, he was ready to follow her even after she was outed, if she would just have explained herself to him. Well, I guess he wasn't on board for the half a million people dying plan, but other than that...


I don't know that it has to be your #1 goal in life, I think it just has to be a genuine desire.

You might have a point, but I don't know if his love for nachetania disqualifies him from being a brave.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5505
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:08 am Reply with quote
^But the little we know about him is that he's a true, righteous dude that believes in doing the right thing. Although I agree he's now the biggest suspect for 7th (apart from Rolonia), I don't think his drive to exterminate the Demon Lord and accomplish his fate as one of the Braves (in the case that he is genuine) can be questioned. Kind of like a Schrodinger's cat situation I guess. We can say his desire to defeat the Demon Lord is both immense and nonexistent at the same time, and it will remain that way until we learn if he's real or fake. But if he's fake, I'm absolutely certain he didn't know Nachetanya was. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that he could've killed Adlet in that crucial moment, but he hesitated and gave Adlet the chance to clear his name and unveil the 7th's plan. Even if he didn't know Nach was the 7th, it stands to reason that, if he were fake, he would have no motive to give Adlet a chance to solve the mistery, since getting real braves killed and keeping them locked in the fog could only benefit the Demon Lord.

OTOH, I think there's a strong possibility that he doesn't know he's the 7th, that he's convinced he's a real brave and there's an entire different reason to make a fake 7th brave other than destroy the real ones from within. It could also happen that the "fake crest donning" process got screwed at some point and Goldov ended getting one by accident.

A more far-fetched theory is that the goddess decided the Demons were scheming too much (as mentioned previously they have a lot more information than Saints or Braves) and purposefully created an extra Brave to make the mission more doable.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9871
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:30 am Reply with quote
The main problem with Goldev being the new seventh is the same problem with his being the original seventh. That is that he, of all the group, is so lacking in personality and back story that it wouldn't achieve anything plot wise. He is basically disposable.

If in a sequel anime, or in a later novel, he is given a bigger role, I can see the author having more use for his overcoming betrayal and sorrow than being a fake.

@CrowLia
You make a good point. We don't know if the Goddess is still active or if the choosing of the braves is somehow automatic. If she is still part of the picture, there may be seven (or more) legitimate braves. Funny, the Deus ex machina in this show may be an actual goddess.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:44 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
The main problem with Goldev being the new seventh is the same problem with his being the original seventh. That is that he, of all the group, is so lacking in personality and back story that it wouldn't achieve anything plot wise. He is basically disposable.

If in a sequel anime, or in a later novel, he is given a bigger role, I can see the author having more use for his overcoming betrayal and sorrow than being a fake.

@CrowLia
You make a good point. We don't know if the Goddess is still active or if the choosing of the braves is somehow automatic. If she is still part of the picture, there may be seven (or more) legitimate braves. Funny, the Deus ex machina in this show may be an actual goddess.


In fairness to Goldov, there hasn't been enough time to flesh every brave out yet. Of the eight "braves," we really only understand the motivations of flamie and Adlet. Everyone else is "disposable" right now from a character standpoint. We don't even know what makes Nachetania tick yet.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:23 pm Reply with quote
Bugnin wrote:
Quote:
We don't even know what makes Nachetania tick yet.


Which is my biggest complaint about the anime as a stand alone story. We have no idea how or why she semi defected to the other side.

Concerning Goldov, with the others we at least got hints about a back story. With him, what you see on screen is all we have. He is strong, stoic and in love with/devoted to Nachetania. If I were the writer, I would make him a real brave but have him betray the group at Nachetania's request anyway. Unless the novels are licensed I'll probably never know.

One problem that I have is that the entire "locked room" mystery that made up the plot of the anime is too complex to have ever succeeded. This is, however, so central to the anime I don't see any way around it.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
We don't even know what makes Nachetania tick yet.

If we assume that she wasn't lying about her personal history, then the king having her mothers side of the family killed off for proposing a "blasphemous truce" would be enough reason for our dear bunny princess to side with demons as the leadership of humanity isn't that much better in regards to "killing people in the name of peace".

She only survived once she was able to become a false brave "proving she was an enemy of the Demon Lord", seducing Goldov (which the show very much displayed she succeeded in) and trying to do the same Adlet was of course part of her game plan.

Killing off Flamie regardless if she was a real or false brave would keep Nach in the game longer, and sacrificing Adlet sooner rather than later would be a worthwhile move as in fighting between the seduced men would simply reveal her in due time.
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Noctis313



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
The main problem with Goldev being the new seventh is the same problem with his being the original seventh. That is that he, of all the group, is so lacking in personality and back story that it wouldn't achieve anything plot wise. He is basically disposable.


Okay he may lack personality, but nachetanya also dont have a back story yet (blablabla peace with demons doesnt count). So his past might be very emotionally connected with the princess and thats prolly why he felt in urge to help her achieve her goals
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:03 am Reply with quote
@Noctis313

At least Nacho had a personality. My point is that at the moment Goldev is too much a cardboard cutout to be a good villain. Keep in mind that this author made an antagonist out of what in the first few episodes appeared to be a very likeable main character. He is going to have to build up Goldev a lot to make it worthwhile tearing him down. The same applies to a lesser degree to anyone but our current main couple.

At this point we don't even know if the team will bother. While locked in the barrier the team had to find the fake to get out. In the future they may just keep an eye out until someone tries to cause problems. For that matter, as several people have speculated the new seventh may not be on the wrong side. The whole story is wide open if all you have is the anime.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:33 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:

I agree with you about the selection process. The anime has information holes you could drive a bus through. Just as an example, the Demon King's people seemed have a much better idea of how the braves were selected and when. They also knew all the details about the barrier while the braves knew very little. The whole plot to create the locked room thing was set up weeks if not months before the braves were selected.

I agree 100% It also has parts that simply make no sense. So assuming Nacho is not lying about the 7th to cover for someone (at this point I'd not even be surprised) then why the hell did she go so nuts and attack Adlet? I mean I get the fact she had to attack him to keep her cover but it went way beyond that. The crazy homicidal rage she had when he was thought to have hurt Hans and was truly the 7th. Plus from the time the sky went all dark and bloody and "ooohhhh the demon god is coming" to when she comes upon Adlet in the pit there was not much time. I guess she is real quick at putting on henna tattoos to get the fake mark on her. It just feels like they spent all those episodes leading up to that moment and it was very underwhelming.

What really gets me is the fact that they were so worked up and spent so much time on figuring out who the 7th was, but yet when a new "7th" shows up they barely give it 5 seconds of thought before just rolling out. Yes I know they were trapped in a barrier before but good god, you'd think after all that crap they would at least sit down for 5 minutes and be like "well ain't this some shit" before just all casually getting ready to head out. Plus for viewers who watched all those episodes of suspense to figure out the 7th to get yet another show up out of nowhere sort of seemed like a giant middle finger.
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