Forum - View topicEnough tsundere already!
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23858 |
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Nope. Okay, fine, Koyomi didn't personally mix up a magic potion that cured Hitagi, but if he hadn't persisted in his actions, she would not have been cured.
Naturally, you are allowed any opinion you wish. I just don't think your opinion is supportable by what actually happens in the show. If you interpreted Hitagi's spoiler["I'll be your girlfriend"] statement as her being all starry-eyed in puppy dog love, what can I say? Enjoy your reality. |
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Bored_Ming
 Posts: 242 Location: The Edge of ...... |
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As Mr. Miyagi said, "Tsundere if do right, no can defense."
I don't mind the Tsundere trope. Like Blood- I leave my loathing for the milquetoast harem jackass. Re : Hitagi falling for Koyomi. She felt he could help her because of his vampire blood. His fast healing showed her he wasn't full of B.S. and could actually help her. Suruga tried to help her but couldn't because Hitagi knew Suruga would not have a real clue as to what was going on. Koyomi really ended up being the "one" who could help her. From there the relationship grew over time. Right up to the final broadcast ep. The road wasn't perfect. Hitagi wondered why Koyomi helped the other girls and was she really that special to him if he was doing the same for others. |
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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True again but I like to think I value maturity and realism in characters and relationships (not realistic in that the situations are realistic but they act like an actually person would in a given situation, even in a very unrealistic situation). I guess I can't in all good faith make a statement like I hope they stop making anime with the tsundere I dislike because I am sure there are some strange folks who really enjoy it, though I would love to see more tsundere done in the more realistic mature approach @Megiddo Its not that big of a change. Hitagi never hated Koyomi, when he was a stranger and she was worried about him revealing her secret she threatened him but she never disliked anything about him. If we just assume she liked him from the start but just needed to get to know him I don't see how there is a big change of disposition |
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Darth Joker
Posts: 84 |
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A year ago I might have agreed with the OP here, but I honestly haven't seen an overabundance of tsunderes this year. If anything, they seem to have cut back a fair bit (unless you define the term "tsundere" very loosely, which in fairness, some anime fans do).
None of the females so far in The World God Only Knows strikes me as being a tsundere. None of the K-On! girls came across as tsundere to me. Most of the Amagami SS girls didn't come across as tsundere to me. Neither of the leading female characters in Angel Beats! or Durarara felt particularly tsundere to me (keep in mind that Yurippe wasn't really in a romance). As for Hitagi's sudden mood swing in Bakemonogatari... spoiler[wasn't she being corrupted by that crab thing during her own arc? I just thought that her aggressiveness had been temporarily heightened by the evil crap spirit (for lack of a better term).] Anyway, I don't even consider Hitagi a tsundere myself. spoiler[One of the main points of a tsundere is that it takes them a long time to admit their feelings for someone, and it only took Hitagi a few episodes to admit her feelings to Araragi. ] IMO, it's not that tsunderes are overly common; it's that some anime fans use the term too loosely hence giving the impression that they are overly common. |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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@Darth Joker
my viewing habits arn't necessarily chronological aka I am always a couple of seasons behind (I like it that way DONT JUDGE ME!!!). But i am happy to hear the newest stuff is avoiding the tsundere, and I completely agree that Hitagi isn't a real tsundere at least not the kind of tsundere we have come to expect from anime |
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Darth Joker
Posts: 84 |
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I can relate. I used to be that way myself. In fact, I still am if the latest anime season disappoints me - then I tend to go digging for good older series to fill up the added free time.
Well, there is one VERY prominent tsundere character this latest season, but you can kind of tell she'd be a tsundere just from promotional art, lol. Aside from her, yeah, anime is finally being a bit more reserved in how they use this character type. |
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wanderlustking
 Posts: 449 Location: Bozeman, Montana |
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I think the debate over whether or not these type of girls exist or not would be best answered with an some reminiscence. When I was stationed in Japan there was a female bartender who thought I was the lowest common denominator of Marines (in those days, in Japan, being the worst Marine was like being the worst booger; you'd already started off badly, then you had to go and win the damned thing). She hated me, and made no attempt at hiding it.
She's the godfather to both my daughters. What happened? She walked in on me kicking the ever loving crap out of a sailor who'd called her a...couple of insulting words I don't think most civilians would even know. Strangely enough, this would have only been further proof of my barbarity, had I not taken the guy to the hospital myself. Women truly are that crazy. Now that I've told a long rambling story that no one gave a crap about, I can get back to doing other stuff that old people do; like complaining about loud music, and complaining about the cold. Stupid Beastie Boys, stupid Montana winter! |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23858 |
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By the way, folks, earlier in this thread I mis-characterized Megiddo's opinions on certain events in Bakemonogatari and Toradora! as being matters of intellectual dishonesty, which is incorrect. I do believe he is distorting things, but not as a deliberate act - I think he genuinely believes what he is saying and is not consciously distorting things to suit his overall opinion of those shows.
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Not that different from "humans are born to live and die." That's the extent of a person's existence and meaning.
Which is irrelevant in this debate because it was made clear in the anime that he'd do the same thing with or without spoiler[rapid regeneration.]
We all know that ultimately it was spoiler[Hitagi herself.] But then we'd go back to that same argument: "Who's responsible, weapon, culprit, or victim?"* According to what I've seen in my life, the one pulling the trigger was usually the one going to jail. Who pulled the trigger, in this case? Nothing exactly distorted in either arguments, but both are leaving a few key facts behind or just simplifying the story. And we all know simplified stories can look bad and boring since there's pretty much the same formula to everything; e.g. tough girl is overpowered by stronger guy and falls in mellow mellow love *looks at your avatar*. * Oshino, Koyomi, and Hitagi, respectively. |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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@ egoist
to be fair Hitagi wasn't over powered though, in fact in the tsundere trope it is very common for the woman to be without a doubt stronger than the man and is never really overpowered. Unless you mean overpowered with obsessive misplaced affection most likely stemming from a desperate need for attention |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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What who. Oh, no, I'm talking about A Certain Apple Index. By "overpowered" I meant subdued.
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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That's a good point egoist, and I would think that if Mikoto were to go from attacking Touma in the first episode to saying "I'll be your girlfriend" in the third or fourth episode, then I would think that would be way too surreal as well. Thankfully though, Mikoto didn't do that.
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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your completely ignoring the fact that the motivation of the attack had nothing to do with disliking Koyomi Megiddo. She didn't go from hating him so much that she attacked him to being infatuated, she went from not knowing him to being infatuated.
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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Using the traditional method of counting by episodes, instead of screen-time and character development, yes. With that said, how big of a time gap is there between their flourishing, I wonder.
One way or another, as a character Hitagi progressed immensely in just a few episodes, while the famous Railgun pretty much froze in time and never left her tsun tsun behind. What's more surreal in this case? The one who never evolves, or the one who does? Subjective, indeed. Although we can always claim that our opinions are facts. I suppose love at first sight is an extraterrestrial thing to you? |
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Darth Joker
Posts: 84 |
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Agreed. Truth be told, I find a quick romantic development, even "love at first sight", easier to swallow than a romantic development that proceeds at a snail's pace. What I find odd is when two characters have the hots for one another, but they keep putting it off indefinitely. I find it particularly odd with teenage characters, who are just getting used to raging hormones and all that. |
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