Forum - View topicNEWS: GDH Int'l Head Condemns Illegal Anime Distribution
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Raelanura
 Posts: 49 |
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Although (lo and behold) I agree with Zac in that Gonzo are far more likely to know what they're talking about with regards to this issue than any of us do, I think the blame may be a little misplaced here. Blaming fansubs in themselves for the troubles the industry's facing is like blaming a gun for murder, and blaming the fansubbers is comparable to blaming the gunsmith, who may very well have had no ill intentions at all (emphasis on "may"). After all, some (if very few) fansubbers do stop distributing after a title's been licensed, but of course, that doesn't stop the people who have already downloaded the series from sharing it. The real blame here lies with the kind of people who flat-out refuse to support the industry. Recall: -
That said, it's not as though everyone who downloads fansubs (and while we're at it, scanlations) is like that. Hell I run myself into the red all the time keeping my precious collection growing, and anything I do download, I get rid of the torrent as soon as it's licensed and delete the files as soon as it's published (after all, as a certain someone has proven, just because something gets licensed, doesn't necessarily mean it'll get published). I could give you a pretty impressive list of everything I actually mightn't have bought been it not for fansubs, but obviously, not everyone thinks like that. Personally, I'm stumped, but I do hope that something changes soon. If targeting the gunsmiths is really the only way of stopping the murderers, then I'm behind the idea regardless of how much I want to watch the rest of Shana II, Clannad and Kodomo no Jikan; but personally, for those of us who use our guns responsibly, I'd rather, if possible, we target those who don't... no, I don't really own a gun, and yes, I realise my analogy in this post was a tad dramatic. Gomen. "^^ |
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ruro niko
 Posts: 109 Location: Tennessee |
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In addition to fansubs, the drop in DVD prices is probably partially caused by the American anime industry conditioning anime fans to actually be more patient and wait on their purchases.
An anime series may be airing in Japan, with fansubs being released fairly soon after each episode's airing. It gets licensed anywhere from halfway through to when it's over and takes maybe a year to get to the states in DVD volumes. Now, you've seen the fansubs, so you know you like the series and would like to own it, but not at $30 for 4 episodes of a 26 episode series. About a year and a half passes when the volumes are all released and the box set that has the whole series for cheaper than you would have paid for it individually is released. What even longer and it may even get a thinpack release. Time it just right, and the series will end up on sale on rightstuf or on ADV's own website. Then there's always the occasional haggling some people are gifted with doing at cons. You can wait this long because you might even still have the fansubs, so you'll buy it when it's most convenient, which would be when it's cheapest. Most of my more recent anime purchases have been stuff that's a good deal or on sale. I'm not saying the industry shouldn't have sales to clear out their backlogged inventory, but it's just another thing to keep in mind for why anime industries aren't getting as much of a return as they would want. Kind of off the fansub topic, I know, but the thread sparked the thought. |
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N-Bomb
Posts: 3 |
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Regarding the 'they pay people to research these things':
I'm sure they do, however I also know that businesspeople A) love scapegoats and B) like to shoot first. I question any finding of this sort that can't prove a definite link. Regarding the 'subbing is stealing': Before looking at that, let's look at the basis of competition here (not that fansubs should be competing with commercial releases - I hate that) but if a dude in a basement can do a better or equal job than a professional company, then one should look at the whole economics/viability of the industry, and consider whether banning fansubbing (or whatever they want to do) would amount to nothing more than protectionism. |
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zalas
Posts: 100 |
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Yes, he has every reason to know what he's talking about because of his position. However, because of his position, you really can't expect him to tell the entire truth and not an embellished version.
However, from the tone of his answer, he's making it out to be some uber evil that must be expelled and using extreme analogies to that effect.
Agreed on the endless cycle idea, but I don't think the fact that fansubs exist is as big a part of the problem as he makes it out to be, in terms of watchers watching fansubs instead of buying DVDs. Why does the mere existence of fansubs immediately lead to a decrease in sales? I would agree that an overabundance of fansubs would start eating into their bottom line, but a small amount of fansubbing could help improve the reception of an otherwise unknown show. Furthermore, consider that if the show is not that great to begin with, someone who has watched the fansub is less likely to buy the DVD. From his interview answers, it seems that he likes to draw this out as a black and white argument. |
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Fallout2man
Posts: 274 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Not to mention that imports are technically a gray area thanks to the DMCA and DVD region codes.
There can't be because it doesn't exist. There is no direct link to prove causation. All they do is try to correlate rate of sales with rate of downloads. They think that somehow correlation equals causation, to which if you believe that, I have a lovely study on global warming made by the church of the flying spaghetti monster you should see. They can say sales are down, and that's bad, but no one can actually attribute any lost sales or damages to piracy, they can just make huge guesses or predictions which could be way off from reality.
The big reason would be the RIAA did and still sort of does the same thing. They have way more money than Gonzo does and yet most of what they've been doing up until very recently is blaming every loss or decline in sales on piracy and even released highly fallacious studies they bought and paid for, to supposedly prove it. Just because a company has a lot of money and can hire experts who can make an unbiased judgment of the market doesn't mean they have or will. When someone comes out blaming all their woes on an unpredictable incalculable piracy demon it just smacks of more RIAA style propaganda. I think it's right to question any organization that blames all its woes on any one factor that it can't show any conclusive evidence on. It makes it seem if anything more like the company might have an agenda and be using lies or fallacious arguments to try and get people to agree with its agenda however it can. |
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Unholy_Nny
 Posts: 622 |
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I personally didn't pay for it =) And, CDs for $9? No way. Even first week sale prices at Best Buy are $10-$12, and after that the prices are $12-14. ($16 if you shop at places like Sam Goody or FYE) I personally paid $25 for my copy of NIN's "The Fragile". Double disk CD, something like 2+ hours of music. But it was still $25. Luckily, I managed to grab Thrice's newest CD for $10 on release day. (The cover of which is my avatar. Everyone, buy it! Awesome CD.) Last edited by Unholy_Nny on Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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I am not saying fansubs aren't harmful. I am asking why does everyone who claims it resort to the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. It isn't that we expect him to speak negatively of his company in public but when you say
and yet they continue to expect us to buy their stuff over other higher quality releases, one questions if he is really just pushing corporate talking points. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Newsflash, just about EVERYTHING Gonzo has made in the past is licensed, and available on domestic dvd. Uusually within a year of it broadcasting in Japan. And I imagine everything they've got in the pipe right now is licensed, coproduced, or in the process of getting licensed..... they're a company who seems to depend on the R1 market for funding [and also make some of the most beatifully animated shows] I think Gonzo is one of those companies whose releases you'll never have to worry about not seeing in R1, so fansubbing them is pointless in many ways, and kind of insulting to their ties with. the domestic market, and to their business partners and creative staff. Last edited by Paploo on Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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#1, as I said, I pretty much never buy CDs (not because of MP3s, I just don't buy much music) #2, Stores like Sam Goody and FYE are going the way of the dodo (no doubt because of prices like what you quote) #3, As I said, on Amazon (which I don't consider the place to look for "best bottom dollar deals") I can see "average" CDs selling for $9 (some less, some more), I don't usually look for "new" and I admit I dunno who is popular at the moment, but for single CD albums, I don't see much above $12 for releases this month. (several for maybe $11 or $12) If we want to dig into that level, then it becomes a question of how much of the (let's say high end) $12 goes to the studio. Let's assume 75%, we're back to $9 vs. $6, but the question of profit/album is not as questionable and overall profit is still equal. Considering that even people pushing "buy the US release" are saying "I can find better deals than retail", I don't think high end prices make a solid "average" value. (For the record, I think people SHOULD buy the domestic release for shows they like, but I think "release lag" is a bigger issue wrt to fansubs than PRICE. By which I mean if you drop the "release lag" to almost zero, I bet FANSUBBERS (ie. the source) would start to disappear and all that's left is flat out bootleggers) |
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ruro niko
Posts: 109 Location: Tennessee |
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I think he meant properties in general, not GONZO-specific. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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And how exactly is what you're saying not self-serving? People may point the finger when industry reps say this, but sometimes, anime fans tend to be guilty of what they accuse industry reps of. I'd take the word of the creator more over the word of some random guy who downloads it on the internet who has no financial, artistic or personal stake in it [outside of entertainment- luxuries aren't a right, they're privilege]. |
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minakichan
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At least GDH is looking into online distribution. Seriously, what century are we in? It's about time. Japan has lots of online distribution for anime (often even free!), and there are some limited services in America that most people have never even heard of.
And honestly? I'm starting to believe that the need for US distributors is decreasing. The very fact that fansubs are so big really makes me think that not everyone really desires a pretty artbox and a physical DVD. Why can't the Japanese companies subtitle anime themselves and distribute them on the web-- the same way they might distribute some of their raws ANYWAY-- for a price? Cost of translation and editing isn't exactly enormous anyway (and considering that people out there are willing to do it for free? A Manganovel-like service for anime would be pretty much amazing.) Also, the Japanese companies wouldn't have to work through a US distributor middleman, meaning lower prices for the consumer and still higher profits for the Japanese companies. Then, if some North American distributor wants to get the DVD rights, that can come later. |
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Fallout2man
Posts: 274 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Enough of us out there still like dubs, so yes U.S. distributors are important. Otherwise anime would lose some of its market share when people who dislike watching subtitles decide to stop purchasing anime. I mean, I'll watch subs for free (like some streaming ad-supported service) myself, but I'd never buy an R1 DVD without a dub track, ever. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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No, fansubs are big because they are free. Death Note had 30000+ downloads a week as a fansub. I wonder if the official subtitled versions even broke 3000.
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Unholy_Nny
Posts: 622 |
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I like my pretty artboxes... |
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