Forum - View topicKUROSUFAIYAH
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Lynching? Hoo-boy, strong words.
First of all, lighten up, people. Stop taking the fact that none of us like Azumanga Daioh so personally. Myself, I tried to avoid the name-calling; my point was that it was quite popular despite my disdain for it, so I had really no option but to accept that fact and move on. Zac was just funnin', mostly, but just because you might know perhaps one or two female fans of the show, or AzuDai fanboys that aren't those with a lolita-complex, you cannot expect that evidence to totally outweight the lots and lots of fans that, in fact, ARE watching the show for a lolita-complex fetish. A similar situation would be a heterosexual male watching something like Gravitation because they honestly like the story and characters; of course, this does NOTHING to counteract the fact that there are lots and lots of female fans who watch the show to see effeminate bishounen kiss each other. I don't think the show is very funny, but I know that lots of people do for perfectly normal reasons and that is a-ok with me. One last thing: AzuDai as vaudeville?!?!? Do you honestly know what vaudeville is? Have you seen any? I mean, seriously. |
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Amused Observer
Posts: 164 |
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I found it amusing that the moderator would feel the need to revisit the Azumanga issue. His preface is referring to this discussion:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1908&highlight=azumanga Secondly, I strongly dispute this comment made by the moderator in the preface to the Azumanga discussion: "Firstly, I want to call out the guy that said ANN said that 'Azumanga Daioh is for pedophiles". ANN never said that. I said that Azudai is for creepy old men with lolita complexes. I did not say pedophiles." Zac, at no point did I (the guy you're clearing calling out in that statement) suggest that ANN is making ANY kind of statement. PLEASE go back to the link I posted and reread it. You made a PERSONAL comment regarding this anime series, and everyone who posted in that thread understood that. So that's misstatement number 1. Second, this is the particular statement you made from the original Azumanga discussion that I heavily disputed with: "Oh, plus all the fans I know of that show are like 25+ guys. It's supposed to be for little girls. I know no females or children that like it. Only creepy older guys. That adds to my hatred." In a followup post, I disputed your definition of "older guys" as 25 years of age or older. If you compare your original statement with the Azumanga preface in your Kurosufaiyah! discussion, there's a big difference, no? That's misstatement number 2. Thirdly, on page 3 of the original Azumanga discussion, you made this statement: "I hate the show, and I think guys who watch it are sickos, because it just seems like they aren't willing to admit that they're watching it because they get off on it. There are a few out there who don't, yeah. Good for them. They just have bad taste instead of being pedophiles, which is better, I suppose. There's less jail time for that. " Please note that you DID suggest that guys who watch Azumanga may be "pedophiles". Yet, you deny it in your preface. So that's misstatement number 3. I won't bother asking for a re-write of the Kurosufaiyah article to correct the misstatement. Because obviously the writer still have personal issues with me, and would ignore such a request. 
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Amused Observer
Posts: 164 |
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Unfortunately, I feel like Zac is still gunning for me, for some odd reason. He made quite a few misstatements, as discussed in an earlier post in this thread. 
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Actually, you are NOT the person he is calling out. I know this for a FACT. |
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Amused Observer
Posts: 164 |
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let the man speak up for himself, then.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Uh, yeah, Amused, that statement was not about you at all. It was about someone else in a discussion that had nothing to do with this fourm whatsoever.
-Zac |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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it wasn't here. it was a choice phrase spoken by a choice individual on a private mailing list, that several people passed along to myself and others, and has risen to the rank of infamy amongst those who don't like ANN. :p Once again, whether we like it or not, provided we are "ANN Staff", what we say in the public reflects not only on ourselves but on our site. The same sort of things happens to politicians who ruin their career over a sentence or two (Trent Lott) or sports stars who don't want to be role models. The short of it is, we are "public" individuals, and what we say in the public affects how others perceive ourselves and our organization. We didn't ask for that recognition, yet it is thrust on us. The only way to distance ourselves from the organization is to LEAVE it entirely.. and even then depending on how it goes the reputation produced by our stay here can influence how others perceive us in the future. That doesn't mean we're "stars" or that everyone in anime fandom knows who "Cookie" is (Heck, I'll wager most fans today don't even know who Steve Pearl or Curtis Hoffman are; they're relics of a bygone era) but many people will still recognize the name "Anime News Network" and will associate things said by "ANN Staff" to be the same as things said by "ANN" itself. Notice the short-lived "rants" forum, much of the dissent from the AJ editorial, and now most recently Zac's AzuDai commentary (which was actually fairly old, and was only pulled into light recently).. They're all basically the same thing -- name recognition causing problems. :p |
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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I don't get what all the hoopla is about. It's an opinion feature....if you will, a fluff piece. (Not that I'm saying any of your opinions are fluff...but in my definition a "fluff" piece is basically any article written that has no basis in fact.) While the feature is quite interesting and I'd like to see it continue, it's all OPINION.
Oh wait...That's right...no one can have a different opinion on something! Everyone must think alike! Sure, it's easy to single out Zac's opinion on something. He's a known figure around ANN and he can be abrasive at times. But it's still his opinion. Just because people recognize him doesn't invalidate what he thinks about something. So, if you are that offended by other people's opinions, don't read that particular feature anymore. No one if forcing you to read it. It's quite possible to browse around ANN without reading every single thing printed on the front page. (Example: I generally don't read the reviews on the soundtracks or manga...why? just because I am not interested in those things. Does it make them bad columns? Not at all. They just aren't for me. I still quite enjoy everything else ANN has to offer.) |
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GATSU
Posts: 15353 |
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You know, it doesn't really bother me that they didn't have an alternate opinion, since 99% of other anime sites are going to be displaying that alternate opinion in their reviews. And speaking from experience, I'd rather know there's someone out there pointing out that the emperor has no clothes than to let the sheep ruin the genre as a whole by convincing companies that watered-down tripe which panders to the lowest common denominator(You know, the thing that made you rail against Disney?) is the way to go. (And apparently, the fact that Millennium Actress has only made a fraction of the money of Perfect Blue, even though they had roughly the same amount of theaters really proves my point about how the industry in the U.S. has gone to hell, because of these lame otaku.) I mean in the past, I might support mediocre crap like this in an effort to promote anime as a whole. But now that it's become more diverse, I can actually think for myself.
Oh, and weirdofu, being Japanese or being aware of the variety of Japanese comedy has nothing to do with how suck-tastic Azumanga Daioh is. As I mentioned in another thread, it's as hilarious as Family Circus. People enjoy Goldenboy's humour, and many of the aspects of that series are distinctly Japanese. I love Crayon Shin Chan, and many of the jokes in that series revolve around Japanese themes. It's not about elitism, when they voiced their opinions, but preference. We all like leave-your-brain-at-the-door material at one point, but some of us don't like to leave their brain at the door as long as others. And if anyone in general wants to prove they're more sophisticated than the stereotypes they presented, perhaps they should present examples of titles they enjoy which don't consist of simply shonen ai, fighting, or love triangles. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Yes, I know what vaudeville is. I've been familiar with vaudeville ever since I did reports on the Marx Brothers and other vaudeville acts nearly 15 years ago. The routines and play that the characters have off of each other in AzuDai remind me of many of the types of routines used in Vaudeville. The banter and quick wit reminded me of the Abbot and Costello and Marx brothers routines. Although Vaudeville was much more of a variety show (so to speak), and was certainly more expansive than just comedy, I was referring only to the comedy aspect, and not the other types of acts such as song, dance, magic, juggling, etc. However the stylization of humor used in AzuDai, again is what reminded me of those things. As such, many other things have had their roots in the comedy stylings of vaudeville. SNL is a perfect example, and has gone it's own way. It is, perhaps a modernization of vaudeville, and has left many other interesting acts behind and attempted to focus on the comedy, more than anything else. Unfortunately, I feel the creative spark which was found in those days has diminished. There are a few bright spots though, and I found AzuDai to be one of them. Does that sufficiently answer your question? |
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weirdofu
Posts: 34 |
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Ouch, well, I guess I was asking for it. :)
Yes GATSU, you are right, being Japanese and understanding Japanese culture has nothing to do with it, since I'm not Japanese and this is the american market we're talking about. We don't care how popular it is among school girls in Japan, and they feel it reflects on the lighter side of their already torturous school life. And to many people, Azumanga suck like nothing else. Its repetitiveness, its overall weird joke, and just the fact that it just so happens that the author was a woman who didn't care about men in general and just place a male character in the series that is a stereotype of everything bad about men. All hateful characteristics of an anime if you ask me. But truthfully, I don't feel that I can actually convert anyone into thinking that Azumanga is a good series when they already think otherwise. And like you said, some people just can't leave their brains at the door for too long. I can't reject to that. Oh yeah, and does Azumanga contain shounen ai, fighting and love triangles? You are right about personal preference, and I know I have some series that I instinctively shun. I just don't like it some times when people try to push their hatred, preference, onto others without being reasonable. Do I make sense? I hope I do, as clumsy with words as I am. I probably shouldn't say anymore 'cause I'll probably just end up digging my own grave here. So, I'll just leave it at that. I think the point here was originally not how good or bad azumanga is, but rather how biased the column or whatever it is was. |
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Amused Observer
Posts: 164 |
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regardless of WHO the "call out" is directed to, to me that's entirely inappropriate to do in an article posted at a respected anime site like ANN. While the writer is known for using abrasive language at the forums, this is a personal attack on SOMEONE through an official ANN article. And obviously, I'm at odds with the editorship (which chose to allow that material to remain in the article for posting at ANN) again.
That said, I think the choice of guests should NOT be made by the moderator, because it seemed to me like his choice of guests are only SUPERFICIALLY different in terms of their opinions on anime. At times during the conversation, it felt like the guests were tripping over one another to say something in agreement on an anime series. And I, as a reader, certainly wouldn't want 3 or 4 people saying the same thing about an anime series. If you want people to take the discussions seriously, you'll need guests w/ far more divergent views. Gatsu, for example, is a good start. . .  That said, I look forward to the next issue, Zac. 
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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How is what Zac said a personal attack? All he did was correct a very wrong statement that someone made. He didn't call the person names, nor did he say anything bad about the person. He just restated what was actually said. That is most definitely NOT a personal attack. |
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Delthayre
 Posts: 414 Location: One of the good United States |
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This is a problem Zac is aware of. He has already addressed the concern several times. Indeed, he addressed it on the SECOND POST OF THIS THREAD!
I probably wasn't quite right when I called it a diversity of views. But I still hit on the lack of conflict. Remember folks, I tend to play things softly. In any case, Zac addressed the problem in THE SECOND POST!
So, the principal complaint against KUROSUFAIYAH! is that there isn't enough difference in views. Maybe I should have yelled at him with blazing all-caps text instead of trying to be nice about a concern I have with a feature I like. At least then maybe everyone would have noticed that the problem was understood. |
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aceface
Posts: 10 |
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Posting for the first time ever here to defend a show (Azu) that yes, I enjoy. Other people are free to dislike it, however I find it strange that this debate has progressed with little to no discussion of real show content other than broad generalizations. A few observations on my part: as far as boobie jokes go, I have watched up to episode 18, and as far as I recall there has only been one "mini-segment" of about 5 minutes focusing on boobies. This was the part where they are first changing for pool class and are comparing sizes. This is the only part of the show I have seen thus far that has explicit "boobie" jokes; when people speak about how the show is full of these jokes I must admit I have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, the teacher makes an offhand comment about her measurements in the first episode, and yes Sakaki's large breast size is kind of a running joke in the first athletic festival episode, but that is IT. Nowhere else have there been any boobie jokes.
Second, people talk about how many people who enjoy the show have a loli-complex. This might be the case, but when it comes to pedophilia the finger could be pointed at many many other series with much greater justification. For one thing, the characters are hardly sexualized. Osaka is the opposite of sexy, being clumsy, flat, and pasty (look at her trying to stretch). Sakaki definately has the most "developed" features, however she is characterized by being uncomfortable in her own skin, wanting instead to be cute and to not scare cats with her size. Yomi has a weight complex, and Tomo, who could be said to "flaunt" it the most, is just flat out insane. There is not a love hina girl or a ryoko in this cast. You might say that for some fans this would just increase their perversion (more innocent or harder to get or whatnot) but the show deals with this neatly by putting a raging pedophile in its cast. By doing this the show at once aknowledges that these girls would be inevitably viewed in this way and ridicules those who would look at them like that. The male teacher (I forget his name) is attacked episode after episode and cannot be seen as anything but pathetic and sad. It is as if the creators, knowing that many men would watch the show for the same reason he watches gym class, put in this character to get back at them. To attack those who would view an innocent series about the high school girls doing nothing, and going about their lives, as sexual (and perhaps also those who would dismiss the series as such). |
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