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He acts all testy but I bet Polk secretly loves Tsundere characters.

I for one still wonder why tsundere girls are fantasized about period. Yes, I want to fantasize and chase after a girl who treats me like shit and acts like a royal bitch. Who cares if she has occasional moments of warmth and consideration? The rest of the time she's being a ball busting bitch who gets on you for just about everything. Yea....you can keep her thanks. I just don't get how such a person is so highly fantasized over. I like my women to be strong and independent but not to the point of constantly berating me or trying to hit me with something.

@Spastic Minnow

God just because I rated bakemongotari excellent its not like... its not like I like tsundere or something...

@Psycho 101

That might be a more mature sentiment than anime creators expect from their audience. Fantasizing about bitchy women is something guys who have never been with one do. You ever notice that many young women like to date douche baggy men and ignore the nice guys who are reserved as "just friends". Sometimes it happens to young guys, they bitchiness makes the occasional grain of affection that much more significant to a young man with low self confidence and minimal experience

Last edited by Hypeathon on Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

@ poilk92:

Well I was really referring to how the Japanese might not watch anime in general the same way us anime fans would in which we have a chart to let us know the latest shows premiering each season. Most of us wouldn't know what networks or timeslots these shows air or the age demographic these shows are for, nor would it that bother to cross our minds since we watch anime all in usually a single location in a streaming website anyway. Many Japanese viewers probably don't watch anime that way or would care to hunt down every anime show on every tv network that way. So if say for example there are 20 shows premiering next winter and 4-5 of them have very similar tsundere personalities. We might be more likely to notice something like that than your average Japanese viewer because we make anime-watching like an all-you-can-eat-buffet. That was what I meant.

About the need for development in a tsundere character, does the development need to be romantic? I ask because I feel even that is becoming part of the stereotype that the tsundere behavior has to revolve around a romantic releationship, which not to say it doesn't make sense. It's just that I don't think it's neccesarily the only way to exploit a tsundere character... or something. Eh, ...my thoughts are probably a little jumbled. But I can say that whenever I think of tsundere and how fans or a show itself use the word, it bothers me that it's used as a noun and not an adjective to label and sum up the character's personality like that's all there is to it, nothing else. If I heard more of a character's personality described through a adjective in relation to tsundere and not the noun "tsundere," then I probably wouldn't be as bothered.

And on a side note, to make sure I'm not mistaken with the definition, I looked on the TV tropes website and I saw a quote from Helga G. Pataki from Hey Arnold as a way of describing a tsundere personality. Now whether or not TV tropes is reliable, that sort of blew my mind. *laughes*

Darth Joker wrote:

Asuka shows no attraction to Shinji? Shocked

I'm with Dorcas_Aurelia. I don't see that there is any romance between Rei, Asuka and Shinji. Sexual feelings, sure, because Asuka and Shinji are mixed-up adolescents with raging hormones, but I don't see any evidence that either has a crush on / "likes" the other.

ailblentyn wrote:

Darth Joker wrote:

Asuka shows no attraction to Shinji? Shocked

Sexual feelings, sure, because Asuka and Shinji are mixed-up adolescents with raging hormones, but I don't see any evidence that either has a crush on / "likes" the other.

I'm no NGE expert, but from what I remember her behaviour in the final two episodes of the television series was pretty much trying to seek Shinji's affections. Was it not Asuka who said to Shinji "why won't you kiss me"? She also accused him of chasing Misato's skirts instead of focusing his attention on her (Asuka).

Yes, she may not be the kind of Tsundere as we know it today, but like I said in my response to Dorcas_Aurelia, she is Tsundere.

Also, these are teenagers we are talking about, and young ones at that (thirteen going on fourteen). They are still going through puberty. It isn't a stretch at all to think that they'd be unable to make the distinction between "liking" someone and having sexual feelings for them/sexual urges towards them. In fact, it is possible that they don't even know that there is meant to be such a distinction in the first place.

Psycho 101 wrote:

I for one still wonder why tsundere girls are fantasized about period. Yes, I want to fantasize and chase after a girl who treats me like shit and acts like a royal bitch. Who cares if she has occasional moments of warmth and consideration? The rest of the time she's being a ball busting bitch who gets on you for just about everything. Yea....you can keep her thanks. I just don't get how such a person is so highly fantasized over. I like my women to be strong and independent but not to the point of constantly berating me or trying to hit me with something.

Fantasizing about the bitchy women is the furthest thing from fantasizing about tsundere. Really, do people have any idea what the term even stands for?

Believe it or not. There are actually tsundere characters who are not violent. The staple for the character is initially having a hostile or combatitive personality, which hides the caring, shy, insecure part underneath. They are bad at expressing themselves. It's a romantic cliche and nothing else. Drawing conclusions about what kind of people like them or not is utter nonsense. Like, I could say that people who like strong hero characters are usually pathetic weaklings themselves, which would have just as much credibility.

And people should be careful about wishing certain character types disappearing. Just look at what happened to the archetypical romantic hero male like Harlock. Got replaced by these.... new ones.

@naninanino

but in practice these tsundere characters are basically just bitchy women with or without physical violence. There is nothing wrong with the people who fantasize about strong belligerent women I just think its an immature fantasy that will disappear as soon as you date one

poilk92 wrote:

but in practice these tsundere characters are basically just bitchy women with or without physical violence. There is nothing wrong with the people who fantasize about strong belligerent women I just think its an immature fantasy that will disappear as soon as you date one

But you don't date a tsundere, because at that point they're no longer having problems expressing their feelings, which makes them tsundere in the first place. The appeal of tsunderes is that they're cold at first and warm up to the main character through whatever circumstances, not that they're violent. In fact, I have to believe the extremely violent tsunderes like Narue or Louise are the least popular amongst their type because they're too violent.

poilk92 wrote:

but in practice these tsundere characters are basically just bitchy women with or without physical violence.

Blame bad writing for that. This has been gone through numerous times on this thread.

poilk92 wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the people who fantasize about strong belligerent women I just think its an immature fantasy that will disappear as soon as you date one

I'm not sure what I'm reading here. Perhaps it's missing a dot or something. I hope you didn't mean that you're basing peoples "maturity" on what kind of women they fantasize about, since that would be kind of... I better not say what.

I think that tsunderes appeal to some male viewers for much the same reason that "bad boys" appeal to some girls and women more than "nice guys" do:

1. There's a degree of daring and excitement in being with somebody with an edge like that to them.

2. The belief that the rough edges can be smoothed out over time; the desire to rehabilitate the "bad boy", or "tame the shrew".

Or, at least, that's what I used to think until recently. spoiler[The most recent tsundere I've seen is Kirino from Ore no Imouto, and she's still in full tsuntsun mode last I checked, and that's 8 episodes into a 13 episode season.]

Maybe some tsundere fans are just masochists. That would also help to explain whatever thinking is behind MM! this season. Laughing

Darth Joker wrote:

I think that tsunderes appeal to some male viewers for much the same reason that "bad boys" appeal to some girls and women more than "nice guys" do:

And your thinking is wrong, which you would know if you'd bother to read some of the above posts. The type you are talking about is something like Revy from Black Lagoon. She's the kind of rough girl kind of like someone like Vegeta is a bad boy.

naninanino wrote:

Darth Joker wrote:

I think that tsunderes appeal to some male viewers for much the same reason that "bad boys" appeal to some girls and women more than "nice guys" do:

And your thinking is wrong, which you would know if you'd bother to read some of the above posts. The type you are talking about is something like Revy from Black Lagoon. She's the kind of rough girl kind of like someone like Vegeta is a bad boy.

Sorry to burst your bubble but just because you post something doesnt mean it becomes fact. Some of us equate tsundere to bitchy women, if you are of a different opinion thats fine but don't expect us to adhere to your beliefs.

Oh and no maturity is not defined by who you fantasize about. But obviously the nature of your fantasies are in part a result of your maturity level. You were looking at my statement backwards Razz

.

I agree with Dark Joker completely, partially because I already said what he just reiterated but hell I can't hold that against him

naninanino wrote:

Darth Joker wrote:

I think that tsunderes appeal to some male viewers for much the same reason that "bad boys" appeal to some girls and women more than "nice guys" do:

And your thinking is wrong, which you would know if you'd bother to read some of the above posts.

I did read those posts.

"Having a hostile or combative personality" - Your own words

So on the exterior they are like the female equivalent of a "bad boy".

"...which hides the caring, shy, insecure part underneath" - Again, your own words

So the potential is there to smooth out their rough edges.

Fans of the tsundere character type perhaps enjoy watching that occur, just like some girls dig the bad boys, and want to reform them.

Quote:

The type you are talking about is something like Revy from Black Lagoon.

Revy herself was called a tsundere on this thread. So...

Quote:

She's the kind of rough girl kind of like someone like Vegeta is a bad boy.

Right.

Anyway, dude, there's no need to get this upset over this. If you like tsunderes, then you like tsunderes. If that reflects your taste in women, or in female characters, then so be it.

Not everybody has to share that taste, though.

poilk92 - Yeah, I admittedly reiterated much of what you said. I just wanted to present that view of tsunderes from a slightly different slant (i.e. the desire to rehabilitate the bad boy/tame the shrew).

Psycho 101 wrote:

I for one still wonder why tsundere girls are fantasized about period. Yes, I want to fantasize and chase after a girl who treats me like shit and acts like a royal bitch. Who cares if she has occasional moments of warmth and consideration? The rest of the time she's being a ball busting bitch who gets on you for just about everything. Yea....you can keep her thanks. I just don't get how such a person is so highly fantasized over. I like my women to be strong and independent but not to the point of constantly berating me or trying to hit me with something.

I'd imagine it's popular for guys who like a challenge, simply a matter of wanting to "tame the wild beast". There's also the masochists out there who enjoy the abuse.

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