Forum - View topicNEWS: Downloaded Sora no Otoshimono Copy Shown at Funimation Studio
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I wish Funimation would also use subtitles that you can see now and then.
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Daizo
Posts: 139 |
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Of course it's true that there's lots of people who download shit for free just because they can, but there is also a large audience that does this because there are no legal alternatives that would offer the same. At all. (Clarification: By "same" I mean "same quality with no DRM") This isn't just about anime, this goes for TV shows / movies on the internet in general. There are quite a few streaming solutions, but basically all services that offer downloadable videos only offer videos that are generally either poor quality, DRM'd up the wazoo or both. I belong to this category of users myself as well. I hate streaming as a technology because simply put it's just inferior compared to what you can achieve with local file playback, especially in case of anime. If there was a CR-like service that offered downloadable files (in better quality than what CR currently has) I'd definitely fork over the cash and bother with fansubs again. Tech-wise, the industry has all the cards in their hands that they could use to beat the illegal alternatives easily in three important things that matter: speed, quality and service. The big problem seems to be the unwillingness of offering files without DRM on part of the producers, though. Or soft subtitles. It's easy to see why they'd get all protective about this, but honestly, it's just [expletive] stupid. Did the digital music market suddenly crash when everyone switched to selling non-DRM'd files? No, it's just got bigger. And music files are a lot smaller and thus a lot easier to distribute around than big video files are. The only things we've seen on the DTO front for anime so far is piss-poor quality, hardsubbing and DRM. BOST TV was an anomaly in that it offered non-DRM'd downloads, but sadly they still suffered from the other two issues. Unsurprisingly, these two issues were also caused by the producers who were providing BOST with horrible source video and who were also against any kind of softsubbing (the fact that BOST used MP4 as their media container, which has very poor softsub capabilities, didn't help either). It's honestly a shame that they died, since over time they could have probably become something great and they were pretty chill guys in general. I personally chatted a lot with their CEO and gave them quite a bit of advice on how to make their video look less shit and so. I guess this turned into more of a rant, but honestly, this is something that pisses me off the most in today's motion picture industry as a whole. EDIT: Also, to answer the quote directly, it's impossible to say reliably whether there would be a big market for paid good-quality DTO files or not, because no-one has ever tried such a thing. And that's a damn shame. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Didn't ADV Films and Crunchy Roll both offer DTO servies that they discontinued due to lack of popularity?
Also, there's tons of stuff on Itunes. I dunno, I kind of figure whatever DTO service companies create, people will have problems with it, DRM or no DRM, cheap or expensive, you can never match some peoples imaginary standards. Best to go after the proven audiences I suppose- so far, streaming has proven itself, and obviously DVD and bluray's aren't going anywhere. Last edited by Paploo on Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Daizo
Posts: 139 |
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Yes, and can you guess why they were not popular? Because they offered terrible quality hardsubbed video. I don't know the exact details of ADV's DTO options, but in CR's case, the paid DTO options were notably worse than their paid streams. To give some comparison points for the quality, CR's DTO releases were about on par with the illegal alternatives as they were in the year 2004-2005, while CR's paid streams are on the level of illegal alternatives in the year 2007-2008. No legal options even exist that would offer similar quality to what you can get with illegal alternatives today. Even Blu-ray loses to illegal files due to inferior subtitle rendering capabilities. Not to mention the fact that a certain company present in this discussion has also produced plenty of awful-looking upscales on BD, but nowadays the Japanese love to do that as well with the goddamn cancer that is QTEC upscaling. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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That's some fantastic nonsense and all but I don't really get how it justifies you ripping people off Daizo. It's like saying "Until they make Reeses Peanut Butter Cups with Orange Chocolate, I'm going to keep stealing regular Reeses from the convience store".
Or complaining that Malibu Stacy doesn't have a new hat. Ugh, I really don't understand why people hate anime so much. I mean they like watching it, talk endlessly about it online, fight or giggle nonstop over the most minute plot elements, but then when you tell them they should maybe pay the people who make it a few bucks and obtain it through a way that compensates them, they freak out at you and come up with bizarro mental gymnastics to make themselves feel good about stealing stuff [in this case, "sticking it to The Man" and "the quality isn't high enough/Can I have a side order of platinum bars with it?"]. Look, that's great and all, I get why you guys do that, so you don't feel guilty about downloading cartoons on the internet, but seriously, would it be that painful to do what the creators and their friends ask you to do and play nice? Give them their fair share? Because the anime market's super unstable right now [now even moreso], and sticking it to them when they've barely got a leg to stand on is probably a really, really bad idea if you like cartoons. Is it much to ask that you do right by them? The internet's a disgusting/queasy place to be if your an artist right now- I know lots of artists who avoid forums and social media entirely because of these sorts of philosophies. I went through a long block recently because of some really hateful comments I encountered [not on ANN mind you], which ended with people getting dumped on for just being webcartoonists [because apparently people can only enjoy entertainment when it's stolen, not when it's freely given in a way that benefits the artists--- edit-- hey, just noticed this precisely applies to those who insist on downloading fansubs for shows they could just watch streaming]. People really do not value artists AT ALL because of the internet, and it's a vile thing. It's even more disgusting when people propogate it like it's some kind of gospel. I think the whole attempt to make this news into some kind of crusade speaks to the delusions.... I wish that people could get behind manga artists and animators with this kind of unrelenting, stubborn nevergoingtostop kind of support, but I guess people are more interested in serving themselves then helping out the people who work insane hours to make them their shiny stories. Anyhoo, not really making these comments for you Daizo, because you don't care, and you'll be back on the next fansub merry go round with the same opinions, and mabye a new list of unrealistic demands. Mostly making this post because I needed to get this out, and because maybe someone who hasn't picked a side'll read it and understand what I'm saying. This kind of stuff just drains all the fun from fandom. |
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dfrehil
Posts: 16 |
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Your attempts to change the conversation on the basis of your subjective morality are unwelcome. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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How is making a pattern of 0s and 1s derived from another pattern of 0s and 1s "ripping off" someone? Also, please explain to me the chain of logic that results in "hate anime" that begins with applying patterns of 0s and 1s. I noted you mentioned webcartoonists, so I thought it might be notable that not all of them agree with your notions on copying. http://blog.ninapaley.com/ The "font" deal is really nothing IMO, because even IP advocates may not really believe fonts should be IP. It's not like IP advocates have to believe current laws are 100% correct. Believing in something just because "it's the law" is about the worst reason to believe in anything I can think of. Last edited by Xanas on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Funimation's within their rights to use the translation, the video, and Tempest has already clarified a lot in another thread about this situation that I linked to earlier. That part of the conversation was done a good while ago, and people have moved onto whinging about the industry and spouting profansub nonsense. It's pretty clear that Funimation hasn't done anything legally wrong, and in terms of morals, well I can't blame them for making the best of the bad situation that is having your content stolen en masse by selfish nerds, and using the video to speed up dubbing. Should they of waited for another option? Maybe, but I dunno, this is a pretty minor offense compared to the stuff that we see from fansubbers, who people are constantly bending over to pacify. I was simply responding to the the sentiments I've seen from Daizo and others in this thread, and my personal reaction to them. Sorry if that offends you, or if it's something that want to ignore because it makes you uncomfortable. These sort of opinions are something I find deeply troubling. Thankfully, they're just a vocal minority, and most fans know to ignore them. There's lots of fans who don't know that they're hurting anime/manga when they opt with pirate routes [that they often think are official], and I'm simply putting my opinions out there for them. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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If you steal my artwork and post it somewhere online without my permission, and let other people make a profit on it without my involvement, you are in the wrong. Whether it's my webcomic or an anime production staff's months long work, you're no better than Todd Goldman. And people REALLY HATE Todd Goldman http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/03/22/todd-goldman-david-goliath-plagiarism/ And you know what? If FUnimation was paying me to use my artwork, and they used a copy of my artwork from some jerk's blog while they were doing layout because I hadn't sent them the files yet so they could get some work done in advance [and then used my files in the fina product]. It'd be a pretty minor thing. I'd still be peeved at the guy posting my work on his blog without my permission though. Hopefully Funi'ld point my to his direction so I could give him a mouthful. Anyhoo, I guess you guys are just going to say "tldr" and nitpick about the legality of fonts for the next 4 or so pages. edit- oh god, Nina Paley??? She's so full of it. Seriously, it's great you want to share your work with the world, good for you. But it doesn't give you the right to advocate other peoples work beign stolen/abused. It's their work, their rights, and should be up to them how their work is used. Colleen Doran's a much better resource for artists when it comes to copyright issues http://adistantsoil.com/2010/09/01/this-is-not-0s-and-1s/ Last edited by Paploo on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:31 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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maylo
Posts: 19 |
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Just as you would be in legal trouble for downloading a movie or anime even if you didn't originally provide it, you would be in trouble for downloading the font, both parties are held liable. It doesn't matter if you reproduce the said file, just the sole practice of downloading it is illegal. Like I said, if you download a illegal file even if you have the rights to the video and subs, you are taking a chance of breaking the law some other way in this case downloading that font, you cannot feign ignorance that you didn't know that font was in it whether you did or not because of the questionable source it came from. Even though they may not use the font in anything for sale or even use it outside of that computer, they are a for profit company and used it on company machines that are used for commercial purposes.
Google 'illegal numbers'; and as I told Zac, that font is just as equal to any anime or movie in terms of copyright law by belittling it, you are belittling any anime/movie/etc piracy, just because it is a font does not make it any less significant because it's someone else's work. Last edited by maylo on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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I look at it this way, if you have so many problems with then do one of three things a) procure funds or investors and start your own company and attempt to fix the problem. b) put up with it. c) leave the fandom and get into something else.
While I think someone could do some DTO at the moment, that is not likely mainly due to the cost. Say that someone does it right, but not that many people use it. Depending on the cost that could put a company under. Several options including HD or SD options, hard and soft subs (some of us do like hard subs), English and Japanese audio tracks (or JPN if no English dub is available)
The few BD's that I have seen from Funimation don't look that bad. Any group can have bad quality I mean look at some of the BD's of Hollywood movies, some are just outright bad. If I had a choice I would take BD over illegal ANY day. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Since there is nothing in the paper to back up your claims on the numbers (as much as a vague claim of "lots" can be backed up) who "would" buy DTO anime "if only it did not have DRM", what evidence do you have for that? Specifically, if they value DRM-free so much more highly than DRM content, what price premium do you have evidence that they are willing to pay in order to avoid the inconvenience of having to jailbreak the DTO file themselves? |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Sorry, it's not really that I dislike fandom that much, it's just that I need to get rid of bile once in awhile. Mostly I just put up with it, or take an extended break from the internet everyonce inawhile- and when I do I'm not leaving the fandom, I'm just leaving the online aspect of the fandom. Which you don't really have to bother with at the end of the day anyways, but I guess I get nostalgic for the times when people just used to wage wars on Hal Jordan [or anime's counterpart, dubvs.sub], not on ripping off creators because they want pretty shinies. Last edited by Paploo on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Plagiarism I think is a different matter, because the consumer may intend to purchase or take official channels. What you are doing in such a case is defrauding the consumer. So the consumer should have every right to sue you for committing fraud of that kind. I absolutely disagree with plagiarism despite the fact I don't agree with your first sentence. 1) Both "steal" and "my" denote property, this is exactly what I contest and other anti-IP disagree with. We end discussion with axiomatic disagreement on this point if you can't provide logic from a common axiom that shows IP should be seen as property. To establish IP as property you need a valid theory of property that would include IP and show how it does not conflict with other property rights. And yet IP's very existence is a limitation on the property rights of others. If you have a right to a pattern then you say that I can't reproduce that pattern on my own hardware. Unlike a property right which establishes exclusive ownership, IP is required to trump physical property rights to be enforced.
I don't mind belittling copyright law because I'm entirely against it, but in their case I think the point could be made that they disagree with portions of the law even if they agree with other parts of it. I think what they need to do though is provide a valid theory of property that explains IP as a property right, IP advocates have never done this. Most who believe in IP believe it in on utilitarian grounds, but in this age I really think you have to prove it's a net benefit, and I think that's hardly clear. For those who make the moral argument instead of a utilitarian argument, they really need to provide an argument for IP that doesn't rely on the axiom of "I made it therefore I own it" because most who believe in property rights believe they aren't based on causality but rather in homesteading and scarcity. Last edited by Xanas on Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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