Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-07-28]
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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You know, is this lolicon rant somehow my fault? I get the feeling that it is since I was the one who brought up that quote the other day... hmmm.... my bad? I just thought it was funny...
For the record, that fansub group that wrote that quote seems to have very clear goals in mind when choosing anime to sub: if it doesn't have lesbians, grotesque violence by young girls, or just out right loli implications, they leave it to someone else. (Yet another thing which I found hilarious, they really only do one other show that comes to mind besides those three categories) |
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Hajime06
 Posts: 39 Location: South Carolina |
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002256----000-.html
Read the last sentence of the last paragraph. Lolicon is not by any means illegal. I am not a personal advocate of it nor am I against it, but it's not illegal at the least. This really just breaks down to opinion. I personally do not think that seeing lolicon will directly lead someone to take out their desires on a real life child. And if they do then the lolicon is not really at fault; the person would have been disposed to do so anyway. |
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Kilgamayan
 Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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I don't think anyone who is a fan will particularly object ot someone saying looking at animated child porn is wrong, unless that person attempts to present that opinion as a fact. People take more offense when they are attacked for looking at animated child porn, being told that they are "sick" and should go/are going to jail and/or hell. I don't think this stimulus-response is unique to pedophiles - if I told you that you were a horrible person because of your religion (or lack thereof, since I don't know) I'm sure you'd take offense too. |
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Hajime06
Posts: 39 Location: South Carolina |
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People should take some level of offense. It's an attack on them for having a mostly harmless kink. Everyone regardless of skin color or creed has some kind of "unusual" kink. As long as it does not cause unwanted harm to some living thing then they should be allowed to enjoy it.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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What about incitement to violence, incitement to commit criminal acts, libel, slander, and hate speach? TOTAL free speech would permit all of the above. As one person pointed out, "Your freedom ends where mine begins," which is a catchy way of saying that one person's right to do should never impinge on another person's rights to not be done unto. Libertarian doctrine is, in short, the belief that anything that anything that brings no harm to another should be unrestricted. While some extremeist take this to mean "direct physical harm to oneself or one's property" most libertarians, including the Libertarian Party of the United States, feel that "soft harm" is no different than physical damage. So if, by expressing myself, I am going to bring harm to another, I should not be allowed to express myself in such a way. The hard part is of course to determine where to draw the line, and to figure out what forms of expression actually cause harm. Does virtual child-porn cause harm to children? (do violent video games cause violence? does porn cause rape?) People continue to debate and study these topics, and no concensus has been reached in any of them. IMHO, until there is very stong evidense towards "Yes" none of those "forms of expression" should be limited, as much as they may or may not disgust the moral majority. But the day that there is strong evidense showing the answer to be yes, then freedom of expression needs to be limited, even if the expression in question is found to be acceptable by the moral majority. I believe very strongly in freedom of expression, but I very strongly believe that any person who publicly says "All [insert race here] are [insert adjective here] and should be [insert punishment here]" (ie: "All arabs are terrorists and deserve to be deported" or "All blacks are inferior and deserve to be slaves" deserves to be muzzled and/or punished. For the time being, I believe in everyone's right to watch virtual child porn, regardless of the fact that I find it to be disgusting and obscene. What's more, just because I respect a person's right to watch obscene material, doesn't mean I respect them as people. And to echo Zac's point, if particular material is concidered highly obscene by the [a]moral majority, I'd much rather it be kept out of the limelight and not associated with this industry. But then, the opinions of the moral majority change every few years. -t |
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Mint Mania IIDX
 Posts: 77 Location: Central |
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This is why it's impossible to argue with you. All you do is cloak yourself in a "holier-than-thou" attitude and toss attack after attack on my person simply because you believe I am a pedophile for looking at a form of hentai that I personally do not associate with small children in any fashion. Based on your own assumptions about my self-worth and alone-time hobbies, you can't even give me the benefit of the doubt and say "Well, hey, you know, maybe there are some people out there like that. I mean, look at how diverse the world is." No, you have to say "Well, this guy looks at lolicon, therefore he must have the desire to be a serial rapist that only targets children, and as such, I should keep my children outside of his 1000-mile radius." You know, this kind of closed-mindedness is what a lot of people get on overzealous religious followers about. |
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RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
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I was just trying to correct someone's mistaken statement, not trying to say that it was meant to pander to the lolicon crowd. In fact an earlier statement that I made indicated the exact opposite.
And I'm not the person who associated Azumanga Daioh negatively with lolicon even indirectly. There is a lolicon character in the show in the form of the creepy male teacher, but he's made an object of ridicule so if anything, Azumanga Daioh is an anti-loli show. Last edited by RDespair on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shinotaku14
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 233 Location: Greenville or Rock Hill, SC |
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I absolutely agree. It's interesting how the general public of America doesn't take the time to research and understand their own laws. |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Especially when the quote the wrong ones 
Try the Protect Act of 2003, skip through until you get to part about Section 1466A. That makes loli (which fails a SLAPS test) illegal. SCOTUS has said you can't outright ban it without applying the SLAPS test. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Well, I'm not going to guess at PG's reasons, but a person could prefer to have certain parts left to the imagination... I prefer pictures of women fully clothed or in suggestive clothing, to fully naked. In other words, I'd rather look at the Victoria's Secret catalog than an issue of Playboy. Secondly, it's worth noting that a lot of the pseudo-lollicon material that is rather popular, doesn't show children erotically, it merely gives just enough hint to allow certain people's imaginations to run wild. One scary thing, related to your point, is that a lot of the lollicon crowd, and even the moe crowd, sound like "child lovers." A subset of pedophiles that profess that their interest in the child isn't sexual, despite the fact that they invariably end up "making love" to the children. Sorry, I'm arguing different point on both sides of the coin here... -t |
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Shinotaku14
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 233 Location: Greenville or Rock Hill, SC |
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burzmali said:
Okay, I've research this, and I see nowhere wherein section V of the PROTECT act that it specifically prohibits loli. Also, it should be noted that the supreme court has ruled already that cartoon pornography can't be illegal as "Virtual child pornography is not 'intrinsically related' to the sexual abuse of children."" Last edited by Shinotaku14 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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loliconer
Posts: 7 |
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Yes, I just registered today but what I will tell you guys I don't want anybody to know about(when I checked my email(which I hardly ever do) to activate registration, the bulk folder had 666 messages....I think I'm going to hell)
This is me; not all loliconers, not all pedophiles, just me. I've had (note the past tense please) CP in my computer before. I knew it was wrong, and I don't know why I wanted to watch this stuff. I just did. Then, about a year later (about two years ago), I discovered lolicon. All of the CP was deleted. Does this make me a better person? No. Is there a difference between lolicon and CP? That's up to the individual to decide. I KNOW I have problems but I can't afford to fix them right now. Lolicon is sick, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but I prefer it over CP, where someone actually got hurt. You know what happens to drug addicts when they don't get their drugs: they'll do whatever it takes to get what they want. If I don't have my fill, I just might, too. That isn't to say I need it everyday or even every week, but occasionally, I do. What about real children? I walked by a cute little girl in her father's arms the other day and I got pissed. Pissed at what I was and pissed at what I am. But I don't need to touch a little girl to feel pleasure, I got my lolicon right here (that isn't to say I don't have regular(by regular I mean adult) pr0n cause I do, real and animated). To all of my fellow loliconers: get help. To sum up: lolicon bad, CP worse (in my opinion. I know many of you equate the two), therapy later(before it's too late). By the way, Zac's right, get shows about little girls aimed towards adult men(like Ichigo Mashimaro(which I loved btw, but will not buy the DVDs cause this stuff needs to stay in Japan)) out of...well, America. I'm talking to you, American anime companies. Let's not drag anime down further than it already is in the minds of the MANY uninformed. Violence and sex we(as anime fans) can handle, but not the sexualization of children. What Japanese anime companies do is Japan's problem. Now, bring it on!!! Or not, whatever. I think this* thread has gone on long enough. *edit: I proofread this 10 times, how the hell did I miss "this." Last edited by loliconer on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hajime06
Posts: 39 Location: South Carolina |
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Taken from:
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/April/03_ag_266.htm "Problem #3: Past Legal Obstacles Have Made Prosecuting Child Pornography Cases Very Difficult. Last year, the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional a federal law that criminalized the possession of “virtual” child pornography, i.e., materials whose production may not have involved the use of real children. This decision has made it immeasurably more difficult to eliminate the traffic in real child pornography." |
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Hajime06
Posts: 39 Location: South Carolina |
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And you just helped people associate the two. You already had a disposed nature towards CP, but there's no evidence to support the claim it goes the other way. I will still defend my position people who watch lolicon only are not intrinsically disposed to progress towards real CP.
Last edited by Hajime06 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Unfortunately I still get e-mails from professional journalists who want to ask me about "anime, you know those violent and pornographic cartoons." If you're right that no one with half a brain would "see lolicon and pigeonhole the entire cartoon industry as a result" I must unfortunately conclude that a lot of very vocal people have less than half a brain. -t |
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