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Editorial: An Open Letter to the Industry

I've said this before on several threads, but the industry (in terms of US distribution companies) needs to learn from fansubs on how fans want to see anime. Yeah, they can't compete on the speed or the price, but they could at least take some steps to take away the "fansubs are better than DVDs!" ammunition from the fansub afficcionados. Why is it that I can download Death Note fansubs that properly translate and position all the written text in the series, but if I buy the DVD from Viz and choose to watch it in English, I have to leave the one subtitle track on or miss out on all the written text translations? (According to posts on the AnimeonDVD forums, the Death Note DVDs don't have a secondary subtitle track for songs and signs, even though the [as] broadcast version had that stuff hardsubbed.) Why can I download Rumbling Hearts fansubs that perfectly translate the storybook at the end of episode 14, while the Funimation release just leaves these massive blocks of text untranslated? Why can I download fansubs (and R2 DVD-rips) of the Saikano OVA that have properly translated subtitles, while the Viz DVD release has 75% dubtitles that are completely and unprofessionally wrong at many occasions? Why are the subtitles in Bang Zoom releases like Kannazuki no Miko, Gankutsuou, and Haruhi clunky, stilted, and over-literal compared to the flowing, enjoyable, and almost-as-accurate fansub subtitles of the same series? Why do many fans choose to download fansubs even when presented with the equal opportunity to download straight rips of the R1 DVDs?

I mean yeah, there are problems caused by fansubs, and they are serious, but there are low-cost, feasible steps that can be taken.

My stance:
I download fansubs for unlicensed shows that I'm interested in watching. I also buy DVDs of shows I really like. I rarely, if ever, download licensed stuff.


What I think the issue is:
You know what? I don't really give a shit how cheap DVDs are compared to what old skool VHS prices were. I care about how cheap they are in comparison to other DVDs- notably DVDs of American movies and shows.
Frankly, anime pricing isn't even close to being on par with the other DVDs.

For 200 or so minutes of a given anime series, the MSRP is anywhere between $20-40ish per DVD, depending on if it's a pre-order release or if it's special edition (and hell, sometimes special editions go for more, just look at Haruhi).

For anywhere from 200ish minutes of a movie [including bonus features and whatnot] or TV show on a DVD, the MSRP is anywhere from $10-25ish, again, depending on if it's a special release or not.

For boxsets, anime pricing is all over the place. You have cheap stuff in thinpaks, expensive 26 episode series, cheap 26 ep series, cheap short series, expensive short series. But all in all, for starting prices, even including discounts Amazon or Right Stuff will give you, anime box sets are anywhere from $40-200.

For American stuff like 24, the Office, the Simpsons, etc...you can pay $50-60 for an entire season (honestly, I'm not sure how many episodes that is....probably similar to how many are in anime)...and that's BEFORE stores give discounts. You could probably get them for $20-30 easily.

Therefore, no, anime is not cheap. It's cheap compared to what it used to be, but in the current DVD market that Americans are exposed to- it's not cheap.


What "the industry" can do to save it's ass:
As far as I'm concerned....either drop dubs altogether, or release disks that are cheaper that have no bonus features and no dubs.

From what I've heard, dubs cost a boatload of money for companies. If they cut those out, how many customers would they lose? I'd assume a very, very small portion. While some people prefer dubs, few people will watch dubs and only dubs. They'd settle for sub if they had to.
Without a dub track, companies can make DVDs cheaper, or at the very least not have the huge payroll of a dubbing cast. And if my above statement is true (regarding dub fans), they'll sell around the same amount of DVDs as they usually were.
Then again, if they choose to make DVDs cheaper, they'll probably sell more.

Screw selling anime online. If people are proficient enough with computers that they'd be considering buying anime online, I don't see why they wouldn't just go to bittorrent and download stuff for free.
I mean, I guess if a company was selling shows for like 25 cents each, I'd probably buy them. But as of now, the $2 anime episodes on iTunes just aren't worth it. I'd rather just spend the extra $5-10 and get the anime in a physical form rather than just a file on my computer.

An online subscription service would work well, too. Let's say, for $10 a month, you can watch as much anime as you want off of a given site that streams anime.
I could see people using that. It would help out everyone. Odds are, there'd be people that watch as much as he can to get their money's worth. Then again, there might be some people who only watch an ep or 2 on a given month, because they might've been busy. Who knows? But I could see it working.

Zalis116 wrote:

I've said this before on several threads, but the industry (in terms of US distribution companies) needs to learn from fansubs on how fans want to see anime. Yeah, they can't compete on the speed or the price, but they could at least take some steps to take away the "fansubs are better than DVDs!" ammunition from the fansub afficcionados. Why is it that I can download Death Note fansubs that properly translate and position all the written text in the series, but if I buy the DVD from Viz and choose to watch it in English, I have to leave the one subtitle track on or miss out on all the written text translations? (According to posts on the AnimeonDVD forums, the Death Note DVDs don't have a secondary subtitle track for songs and signs, even though the [as] broadcast version had that stuff hardsubbed.) Why can I download Rumbling Hearts fansubs that perfectly translate the storybook at the end of episode 14, while the Funimation release just leaves these massive blocks of text untranslated? Why can I download fansubs (and R2 DVD-rips) of the Saikano OVA that have properly translated subtitles, while the Viz DVD release has 75% dubtitles that are completely and unprofessionally wrong at many occasions? Why are the subtitles in Bang Zoom releases like Kannazuki no Miko, Gankutsuou, and Haruhi clunky, stilted, and over-literal compared to the flowing, enjoyable, and almost-as-accurate fansub subtitles of the same series? Why do many fans choose to download fansubs even when presented with the equal opportunity to download straight rips of the R1 DVDs? I mean yeah, there are problems caused by fansubs, and they are serious, but there are low-cost, feasible steps that can be taken.

What a joke. You just don't get it? Stealing is wrong. people go to jail or worst for doing it, everyday somewhere on this planet. Pull your head out. To encourage it, or attempt to justify it is lame.

How 'bout an OPEN letter to ANN's very own moderator. As one who buys all of his anime, this is irresponsible and inexcusable on ANN's part.

What "the industry" can do to save it's ass:
As far as I'm concerned....either drop dubs altogether, or release disks that are cheaper that have no bonus features and no dubs.

From what I've heard, dubs cost a boatload of money for companies. If they cut those out, how many customers would they lose? I'd assume a very, very small portion. While some people prefer dubs, few people will watch dubs and only dubs. They'd settle for sub if they had to.
Without a dub track, companies can make DVDs cheaper, or at the very least not have the huge payroll of a dubbing cast. And if my above statement is true (regarding dub fans), they'll sell around the same amount of DVDs as they usually were.
Then again, if they choose to make DVDs cheaper, they'll probably sell more.

Screw selling anime online. If people are proficient enough with computers that they'd be considering buying anime online, I don't see why they wouldn't just go to bittorrent and download stuff for free.
I mean, I guess if a company was selling shows for like 25 cents each, I'd probably buy them. But as of now, the $2 anime episodes on iTunes just aren't worth it. I'd rather just spend the extra $5-10 and get the anime in a physical form rather than just a file on my computer.

An online subscription service would work well, too. Let's say, for $10 a month, you can watch as much anime as you want off of a given site that streams anime.
I could see people using that. It would help out everyone. Odds are, there'd be people that watch as much as he can to get their money's worth. Then again, there might be some people who only watch an ep or 2 on a given month, because they might've been busy. Who knows? But I could see it working.

What "the industry" can do to save it's ass:
As far as I'm concerned....either drop dubs altogether, or release disks that are cheaper that have no bonus features and no dubs.

If they cut those out, how many customers would they lose? I'd assume a very, very small portion. While some people prefer dubs, few people will watch dubs and only dubs. They'd settle for sub if they had to.

Without a dub track, companies can make DVDs cheaper, or at the very least not have the huge payroll of a dubbing cast. And if my above statement is true (regarding dub fans), they'll sell around the same amount of DVDs as they usually were.

When you look at a show with 2.0 Japanese and 5.1 English, if you threw out the English you could either pack higher quality audio, or more episodes, or up the video quality. The final product would be the better for it if you could get past the non anglais. In my mind, better quality disc + no more dub fees is nothing but happiness and rainbows. Rainbows of happiness, even. Maybe the DVD price would even go down!
Come on dub, take one for the team.

I can't deny though that cutting out dubs wouldn't make me warm and fuzzy inside. Now before a mob destroys me, please keep in mind that: dubs are expensive, like Dkong pointed out; they're often sub-par in quality when compared with Japanese counterparts;

Getting the Japanese companies to allow it would be pretty miraculous, though :/.

I've already been saying this for years and Justin just put it into a very workable form once again. If you want to make money from Americans, you have to put it in a form that Americans want. You can throw around legalities all you want, you can threaten people, you can try to guilt them into things, but in the end, if you don't put out a product that we want to buy at a price we want to pay, you're not going to make any money and guess what? You don't deserve to.

The fact of the matter is, American fans want to see it fast and cheap. That means out online within a week of it's Japanese airing, accurately subtitled, and for about $2 an episode. Do that and you'll have fans beating a path to your website. If you want to put out a dubbed version on DVD with a lot of extras later and charge a reasonable price (and for the record, $40 for 2 episodes is nowhere near reasonable), then you'll get people either replacing their downloaded copies or get the sub-fans getting theirs. There is money to be made, but not using the tired old paradigm that hardly worked back in the 80s. Both American and Japanese companies need to get with the program and deal with the realities of the modern world, not the fantasy world they wish existed.

Justin is right, the time for them to choose is now. Any bets if they have the guts?

You're making a huge assumption that is flat out wrong. Dubbing is a huge part of the industry and a large part of sales absolutely depends on it. Dub fans are every bit the equal consumer as sub fans, either through lack of experience with the Japanese version or through legitament preference. You are confusing the majority with the most vocal. Because a lot the dub fans don't make a loud pretense online or even refrain from communicating with the industry outside the DVDs many hardcore fans assume they're a small group that is vastly outnumbered. In fact, the lack of a English dub would severely hurt DVD sales as great deal of fans, myself included, would refuse to buy a DVD with only a subtitle track. One only has to look at the dubbless DVDs out right now to see how true this is. Little to no big series are commercial released without a dub, and the ones that are sale a great deal less then their dub counterparts.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that dub fans outnumber subbies in actually buying the DVDs. The 'hardcore' fans that you typically find preferring subtitles are the primary watchers of fansubs. While this is a generalization and not a law by any means, the fact remains that dub fans are required to buy the DVDs for there preference.

While a speedier release of a cheap subtitle DVD is a great idea, cutting dubs completely from the industry would only sink it farther into obscurity.

dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:

This makes me think of Russia circa 1990; they had no economy, so they legitimized the mafia. What if American distributors contracted the fansub organizations? I think it would be a great combination; on the one hand its legitimized and regulated, but on the other hand you have the fansubber sensibilities, like let's get this out quick and do it nice. If they would both keep each other in check the end result could be interesting.

The only problem with that is a series would have to be licensed before it airs, if they could do that, your idea would be the best way to go.

What "the industry" can do to save it's ass:
As far as I'm concerned....either drop dubs altogether, or release disks that are cheaper that have no bonus features and no dubs.

From what I've heard, dubs cost a boatload of money for companies. If they cut those out, how many customers would they lose? I'd assume a very, very small portion. While some people prefer dubs, few people will watch dubs and only dubs. They'd settle for sub if they had to.
Without a dub track, companies can make DVDs cheaper, or at the very least not have the huge payroll of a dubbing cast. And if my above statement is true (regarding dub fans), they'll sell around the same amount of DVDs as they usually were.
Then again, if they choose to make DVDs cheaper, they'll probably sell more.

Screw selling anime online. If people are proficient enough with computers that they'd be considering buying anime online, I don't see why they wouldn't just go to bittorrent and download stuff for free.