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NEWS: Manga Ruled Obscene


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:26 am Reply with quote
Tempest: I thought that prostitution in Japan is ok, but having sex with a prostitute under 18 is illegal. (At least only because of recent legistlation.)
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:06 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Tempest: I thought that prostitution in Japan is ok, but having sex with a prostitute under 18 is illegal. (At least only because of recent legistlation.)


Hmm... I'm not sure, lemme double check.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:16 am Reply with quote
Found my answer.

Quote:
under an Antiprostitution Law in Japan, prostitution is deemed illegal, but in effect it is permitted to exist so long as authorities can control it (Morrison 3)



This is from an extremely good paper on child prostitution in Japan that can be found here and the fact is cited as coming from a book called "Teen Prostitution in Japan: Regulation of Telephone Clubs." by Morrison, Andrew D.pubished in 1998.

And apparrently, according to this paper, the legal age is "as young as 12 in Tokyo" (the legal age for sex, not prostitution).
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RantingOtaku



Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:13 am Reply with quote
[quote="Tempest"]
RyoShin X wrote:

Most Japanese men will react the same way when they are shown a women's breasts that a North American man would in the same circumstances (the exact reaction will very from person to person of course... teenagers are likely to explode on the spot).

Another completely unrelated place that they are very different in terms of their laws an what not has to do with the age of consent. The age on consent you probably all know is 18 in the United States, but it's 14 in Japan (it's also 14 in Canada by the way). However prostitution, while rampant, is illegal.

-t


Laughing first part is normal for male's in general, and worded so perfectly.

age of consent here is 14 Confused as far as I know it's always been 18... not that it stops anybody.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:15 pm Reply with quote
RantingOtaku wrote:
age of consent here is 14 Confused as far as I know it's always been 18... not that it stops anybody.


Age of consent in Canada is 14 with restrictions. Most Canadians are unaware of this law and simply assume that it is the same as what they see on american TV shows. Same can be said for most Canadian laws.

It is illegal for a person in a position of power or influence (ie: Family member, teacher, baby sitter, boss, interviewer, potentially a friend of the family) to have sex with a person between the ages of 14 and 17.

However, should the person be in no position to unfairly intimidate or influence the minor into having sex with them it is perfectly legal.

-t


Last edited by Tempest on Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
RyoShin X wrote:
As I understand it, and I could be wrong, the Japanese take a very different view on sexuality


Your understanding of the issue is not quite spot on. Japanese people still see female breasts in a very similar manner as North Americans.

Most Japanese men will react the same way when they are shown a women's breasts that a North American man would in the same circumstances (the exact reaction will very from person to person of course... teenagers are likely to explode on the spot).

But they are much more liberal in terms of what can be shown on television and other media than the United States is. For starters, non-sexual nudity of children is always considered perfectly okay. Take for example the nudity you will see in many children's anime and manga. Additionally, harmless above the waist nudity of adult women is permitted in the media. But you won't see Japanese women walking around topless on a hot day or at the beach...

Two things that are big hang-ups are adult male genitilia and pubic hair. They've loosened up about Pubic hair in the past couple of years, but the depiction of pubic hair and the genitals is generally considerd obscene by law. Professinal Japanese pornography always censors that stuff out (live, manga and anime). Doujin type pron general leaves everything in though, and I suspect that this case was in relation to something of the sort.

Another completely unrelated place that they are very different in terms of their laws an what not has to do with the age of consent. The age on consent you probably all know is 18 in the United States, but it's 14 in Japan (it's also 14 in Canada by the way). However prostitution, while rampant, is illegal.

-t
I guess Perfect Blue slipped through the net of the pubic police then.
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CorneredAngel



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:25 pm Reply with quote
As has been shown many a time, you can get away with quite a lot by calling it "art"/of artistic importance. Also, best I can recall, Perfect Blue did *not* actually feature genitalia on screen. It's sort of paradoxical in light of my above statement, but it appears that in the eyes of the court, what matters is what's actually on the page, pure and simple.
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Lost_Toys



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:27 pm Reply with quote
[/quote]I guess Perfect Blue slipped through the net of the pubic police then.[/quote]

As far as Perfect Blue is concerned, her photo shoots, which had pubic hair in them, where not done in a "sexual nature." It has been recently that the laws have loosened [as stated before] and can be seen in many forms of pornography and mainstream media now. However, when it stops being common nudity, it is still censored out. Additionally, if anyform of the genetalia can be discerned, then it will be censored in all forms.

If you look at any photos by Mask Melon, you will insatantly understand how pubic hair has taken on its own form of "art."
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Allen
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
Another completely unrelated place that they are very different in terms of their laws an what not has to do with the age of consent. The age on consent you probably all know is 18 in the United States, but it's 14 in Japan (it's also 14 in Canada by the way). However prostitution, while rampant, is illegal.


Actually, age of consent in the States varies from state to state. In Mississippi, age of consent is 14 with a ton of restrictions, such as the male being no more than 5 - 6 years older than the female. Also, prostitution is legal in some areas, such as Nevada where quite a few legitimate brothels are run.

As for why I know the age of consent in different states, I was in the Air Force and had to brief a lot of new airman coming into the service. Invariably, one would always ask what the age of consent was for the local area. As for the prostitution thing, I blame my insomnia and HBO late night programming.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Lost_Toys wrote:
As far as Perfect Blue is concerned, her photo shoots, which had pubic hair in them, where not done in a "sexual nature." It has been recently that the laws have loosened [as stated before] and can be seen in many forms of pornography and mainstream media now. However, when it stops being common nudity, it is still censored out. Additionally, if anyform of the genetalia can be discerned, then it will be censored in all forms.


Essentially the answer I was about to give, thanks for saving me some time.
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Mohawk52



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:39 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
Lost_Toys wrote:
As far as Perfect Blue is concerned, her photo shoots, which had pubic hair in them, where not done in a "sexual nature." It has been recently that the laws have loosened [as stated before] and can be seen in many forms of pornography and mainstream media now. However, when it stops being common nudity, it is still censored out. Additionally, if anyform of the genetalia can be discerned, then it will be censored in all forms.


Essentially the answer I was about to give, thanks for saving me some time.

Yes that is true, but I don’t recall that report saying that the said “genitalia” was being portrayed in a sexually penetrative situation. Just that "Bodies were drawn in a lifelike manner with little attention to concealment (of genitalia), making for sexually explicit expression and deeming the book pornographic matter," Mr Nakatani said. Now the same could be ideally said for Perfect Blue as well as it has crossed this apparent line by this definition, which just highlights just how extraordinary this ruling appears. I’d be interested in seeing if the ruling is upheld in the appeal case.
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RantingOtaku



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
RantingOtaku wrote:
age of consent here is 14 Confused as far as I know it's always been 18... not that it stops anybody.


Age of consent in Canada is 14 with restrictions. Most Canadians are unaware of this law and simply assume that it is the same as what they see on american TV shows. Same can be said for most Canadian laws.

It is illegal for a person in a position of power or influence (ie: Family member, teacher, baby sitter, boss, interviewer, potentially a friend of the family) to have sex with a person between the ages of 14 and 17.

However, should the person be in no position to unfairly intimidate or influence the minor into having sex with them it is perfectly legal.

-t


just dusted off my copy of the criminal code.... man there are some weird laws in there. as far as I'm concerned people can do what they want, as long as they are prepared to accept the consequences, be it legally, monetary, medically etc.

heh, even in my law classes we were told it was 18, never mentioned anything else... maybe he didn't want to start a debate Confused
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Kanna no Mai



Joined: 06 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:13 pm Reply with quote
I remember I was reading a article that Japanese censor laws are becoming more strict. According to the article, public Japanese TV is banned of showing nudity, only cable and satellite channels are allowed. Take Inuyasha for example, in the manga Kagome, in some scenes, shows her boobies, but in the anime she doesn't because Inuyasha is aired in public television, Yomiuri TV. The censorship laws are even strict with violence also.
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Lost_Toys



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Yes that is true, but I don’t recall that report saying that the said “genitalia” was being portrayed in a sexually penetrative situation. Just that "Bodies were drawn in a lifelike manner with little attention to concealment (of genitalia), making for sexually explicit expression and deeming the book pornographic matter," Mr Nakatani said. Now the same could be ideally said for Perfect Blue as well as it has crossed this apparent line by this definition, which just highlights just how extraordinary this ruling appears. I’d be interested in seeing if the ruling is upheld in the appeal case.


it depends on how the genetalia was portrayed in the manga in question. In Perfect Blue, it was rather artistic, and handled well. That is, there were no instances where you could make out anatomical parts of her anatomy when it came to the full shots. The pubic hair, in essence, was the "concealment" which is obviously lacking in this manga.

It is presumable that this manga is not of hentai, therefore, the normal channels of obtaining manga can be used [ie. nonisolated sections for adults]. If this is the case, and the images of the human body were displayed "too realisticly" for the type of publication, the courts will find some problem with it.

Once again, we lack a lot of information about the case in order to correctly asses the situation. We dont know how the genetalia was used [was it male or female? What part?] so our arguments are pretty moot due to conjecture.
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BrianRuh



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:59 am Reply with quote
It's very interesting that a discussion about this one ruling about an "obscene" manga quickly turned to the topic of lolicon and the age of consent. To end the speculation -- yes, the manga in question ("Misshitsu") is very graphic, but it contains no representations of underage characters.
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