Interview: The Staff Behind RWBY: Ice Queendom

As a Japanese anime re-imagining of a Western anime-inspired web series, RWBY: Ice Queendom represents both a unique crystallization of the anime's cross-cultural influence, and a testament to the strength of the passion animation can inspire in its fans and creators. ANN had the opportunity to sit down with Ice Queendom's executive producer Mitsutoshi Kubota, scriptwriter Tow Ubukata, character designer huke, and Good Smile Company's CEO Takanori Aki to discuss the remarkable connection between fan and creator that led to Ice Queendom's genesis, the technical and structural challenges of adapting the CG web series to Japanese traditional animation, and what fans can expect from Ice Queendom moving forward.

RWBY, as a property, has come full circle. It was one of the first Western-produced, Japanese-style anime to become wildly popular in Japan, and now it's getting re-invented as a Japanese anime series. As creators and producers, how did you first react to RWBY, knowing that it was heavily influenced by Japanese pop culture, and did that play a part in wanting to adapt it many years later?

Takanori Aki: My first exposure to RWBY was via the trailer made for each of the characters. I thought the design, the layout, and the way the music was incorporated was really cool. I remember thinking, “Wow, he made this in CG?” It was definitely a surprise.

So was it kind of reminiscent of the kind of work that inspired you to work in anime?

Aki: It felt like a border or sorts had been taken down. There was that realization of, “hey, this isn't a style that's just limited to Japan anymore” – as a creator and as a viewer.

What happened next that led you all to Ice Queendom?

Aki: After I first saw the trailer and the first series, I learned that [RWBY Creator] Monty Oum was a big fan of huke-san's Black Rock Shooter and the figures we produce. We got in touch, and he talked about how Black Rock Shooter inspired him and how it influenced the genesis of RWBY. As people who worked on Shooter, we could see those influences in the RWBY video and realized that our creative approaches weren't all that different. And again, we were really impressed by how cool the RWBY video was – honestly, we were a little jealous of the quality! Likewise, he respected and admired our work. We actually discussed working on a project of some kind together in the future. As we kept in touch, RWBY made its way to Japan and the film found an audience there. Monty was so happy to see the reception RWBY got. Sadly, about three weeks after our last meeting, he died suddenly. I felt happy that I got to celebrate RWBY with him, but still, that was a huge loss.

A while later, the topic of a RWBY project came back, and since we had discussed doing some kind of project together back then, that eventually led to the development of Ice Queendom.

That notion of mutual understanding between creators is truly amazing; I think a lot of fans and aspiring creators could relate to that. What inspirations were you able to pull from the original RWBY, and how did the series influence the outcome of your work?

huke: Much like Aki, I saw the original video and was shocked by how cool it was. You could feel that Monty was inspired a little less by animation per se and more by the feel and action of a video game – especially fighting games.

Aki: A sort of “game-based action” feel.

huke: Exactly. To see that style of movement, action, and character expressions captured like that was really cool, and as an animated piece, it felt fresh and unique – like a new step in the cultural development of animation. I loved it. I'd worked on characters similar to that before, and as a creator, it was a cool thing to see. I'd never produced anything using the kind of motion capture tech that Monty used, so I felt a bit envious.

Aki: He did all the motion capture himself the first time, I think.

huke: He did?

Aki: I think it was motion capture, then adjustments were made in the animation process. The original was all Monty, I think; all the motion feels unified in a way.

 

Shion is a great character, and sure to become a fan favorite. Can you talk a little about how you decided on their design and aesthetic?

huke: Once we had an idea of what we wanted for the story, that's when the concept for Shion came to life. We knew we wanted a mysterious character, and since they are a nightmare hunter, we wanted to incorporate a motif of dreams and nightmares into their look. We also drew a little inspiration from Yoshitaka Amano's Final Fantasy artwork... that kind of timeless, colorless look – almost like a spirit. The finishing touch of the Dreamcatcher elements on their weapon tied everything else together.  

One of the things I noticed from the first three episodes of Ice Queendom was how dynamic and well choreographed the battle sequences were. Can you speak a little bit on how the studio decided to flesh out each characters' unique combat styles, and what inspirations the production team may have had?

Mitsutoshi Kubota: Compared to the original CG animation by Rooster Teeth, the production process required for this anime is rather different. In particular, CG action like that isn't something you see in anime; it's typically not the focus. Especially the game-like features...

Aki: The fight scenes were really long!

Kubota: One of the positives of Japanese animation is the creative use of dynamic cuts and layouts that aren't CG. Although lately you have a lot of anime where robots or mechs are modeled in CG or the background is done in CG, starting with first battle scene with Weiss and the Geist in Episode 1, we decided to go with the traditional drawn anime approach instead of a CG model – even though the CG might make things easier in the long run. That let us highlight little details, like shades on hair or the items the characters carry that you can't replicate in CG as clearly. For the most part, I feel like we were able to show a different side of the battle scenes. Overall, it was a team effort between our young animators, the action animators, and directors all putting our minds together to bring it to life and add another dynamic to the action the series is known for.

That's a lot of detail to work with; did that affect the approach in earlier parts of production, like storyboards?

Kubota: Starting with storyboards, we knew which director and animator would be working with each scene and asked the team to keep that in mind when drafting things out. It was important to us that we respect the action-centric style of the original from the first moment on, especially in that battle scene. Our thought process always focused on how we could bring the coolest aspects of Japanese anime design into the series.  

As a follow up to that, there's unique pressures and expectations when it comes to adapting a property that already has a large global fanbase– especially one that was so heavily influenced by Japanese animation. What were some of the considerations you had when approaching this project, and ensuring that both old and new fans would be happy?

Kubota: As animators, we've always been fans of the original. There was a little trepidation about taking it on since the original is really cool, but since the original took a lot of influences from anime and placed them in a 3D CG world, we wanted to see how it would look in a traditional anime style with a different take on character design. Once huke joined the project, we started roughing out non-CG character designs and worked in his designs to create a completely new take on the series.

Although we were worried about doing justice to the series, we created Ice Queendom as a kind of tribute to the original. Moreover, to be able to take these characters, add huke's designs, and work with SHAFT to create this completely new anime was an amazing opportunity.

So despite the pressure, it sounds like all of you were really looking forward to the challenge.

Kubota: We also had the chance to add a chapter to this story, record new music, and really produce a uniquely Japanese adaptation of the original work.  

Ice Queendom is supposed to reintroduce viewers to the world and backstory of RWBY, but also provide a new storyline that hasn't been seen before. What were your inspirations for the new storyline, and how are you hoping returning fans will react to it?

Tow Ubukata: For starters, the biggest challenge was how to introduce the world of RWBY in those first three episodes. We discussed how to put those episodes together a lot. With any story, you have your main character or characters, the people around them, the community they live in, and so on. You also have to introduce the world of the story, and establish how it differs from the world we live in. The toughest part of that process with this series was setting up the differences between weapons and “Semblance.” For example, when Weiss is fighting, you can't tell if she's using Dust or Semblance, or if there's magic used in her weapon. To bring the viewers along, we had to create a way to show the viewers the differences between all three [Dust, Semblance, and Magic] so the audience can understand what's going on and get into the world of the story faster.

The tough part was we need explain it by order of action without words. Doing that in order, so that the viewers can pick up on each element when they see it again, was crucial from a storytelling perspective. It was a lot of work! In that Weiss battle that begins with Dust and ends with Semblance, along with some flashback scenes, we are able to bring the world of the series to the viewer. Taking that approach was crucial, since we wanted to avoid confusing the audience right off the bat. For fans already familiar with the original, I imagine that some of that might have been redundant, but we felt we owed it to new fans to get those details right.

As far as the new story goes, the biggest thing was getting Rooster Teeth to sign off on the “Nightmare” Grimm concept we had in mind. Had we not received the OK for that element of the story, we would have had to go back to square one. In the original, the Grimm usually engage in physical combat. To have them become psychological opponents is a pretty big change, so that approval really helped open the way for the story we wanted to tell.  

I wanted to ask you both about the Nightmare Grimm that's the seed for the rest of the series. Namely, that no one is really immune to it, and there's no way to defend against it, at least that we know of so far. Can you talk a little about its inception, and what it might represent?

Ubukata: It's a different approach to the Grimm, so we're hoping that the established fans watch it with an open mind. Keeping Rooster Teeth in the loop was essential, because we also didn't want to create inconsistencies in the larger story or break with the world it has created. We've done that, so we hope that fans like what we've done.

For this Nightmare , I wanted to tie the mental threat posed by the Grimm, which typically engage in physical combat, who has been a threat in physical fights back to a moment in the narration in the beginning of Episode 1 where it's mentioned that humanity has used its ingenuity and thinking to save itself. The idea was, “What if the Grimm could use that same thinking as a way to threaten humanity?” and that helped guide the path of the story. I think keeping that connection in mind might make the anime even more interesting for the viewers.

Ubukata: As we were putting together the three intro episodes, we went over the original a lot. I couldn't help but think, “wow, they're just kind of doing what they like” – it was a shock for sure. Volume 1, where each story is made at any scale to fit everything into the prescribed run time for the typical anime was quite tricky.

Kubota: Yeah, episodes 1-3 were the hardest – almost like we were making a movie. However, it became a little easier once we got to the later episodes . From episode 4 onward, since we are familiar with developing a title episode by episode to fit the 20+ minute scale of the TV broadcast, the work is something familiar to us. Once we got to our own tale in the typical anime timeframe, the scenario writing became familiar. With that knowledge of how to best utilize those 20-plus minutes, you can do stuff like pacing the story's big moments and cliffhangers.

As far as anime is concerned, utilizing the format of a 20-minute TV broadcast is our strong suit – utilizing that timing to keep audiences interested and engaged.

That stark difference between 1-3 and everything after, along with setting the mood and tone of the anime, sounds like it defined the experience.

Kubota: Of course; we thought a lot about the distribution and the compilation of the original work, and the original development in the overall structure. It was worth it though.

I have a simple question that I think may have a complex answer. But why RWBY, and why now?

Aki: Originally we were hoping to have it released a bit sooner. Unfortunately, COVID affected the production schedule. Still, we're happy with the results and that the show is finally out.

As I said before, the entire project started from that promise with Monty to make something someday, and when we started production, we felt that the time for this chapter in the story had come. Working with Rooster Teeth on how to fit the story in to the larger world took some time, and as we were doing that, the pandemic struck and that pushed the finished product to now.

Beyond that, in the time of the pandemic, I feel like it's become easier for anime fans worldwide to access titles to watch. Being at Anime Expo and seeing how passionate the fans are to be back here, I feel like we've really created a show that people from all over can watch and enjoy, and having it launch now feels like it now has the chance to reach more viewers than ever before. Across the anime industry, it seems like the feel of many anime may have changed compared to anime released before the pandemic.

Of course, we're always going to be anxious about how a title is received and whether or not viewers will enjoy it, but we're excited to see the results. Truthfully, it feels like audiences may prefer a simpler, escapist title these days, so Ice Queendom may not fit that mold. Still, we're certain that fans that make time for the series will enjoy it.

So COVID played more of a role in the timing than you'd intended...

Aki: The impact was significant across the schedule. For starters, getting an entire team together physically to make the anime became impossible. Production-wise, drawing, staffing, and casting methods all changed as well. As a result, I think it affected parts of the anime as a whole.

  We touched on this a bit before, but how heavily involved is the original creative team from Rooster Teeth, and where do you see that partnership going in the future?

Aki: I honestly feel like Rooster Teeth worked with us to make Ice Queendom. They contributed to story development, as well as checked carefully to make sure we weren't introducing contradictions or plot points we couldn't handle.

On top of that, the original RWBY series is still ongoing, so we also hope that Ice Queendom can help lead people to the original series. One of the challenges for an anime like this is to boost the profile of the series as a whole, and I think Rooster Teeth know that we're working towards that same goal. The next season of RWBY is coming out at the beginning of 2023, so we also minded that in the production process and hope Ice Queendom can sync up nicely to the start of the next season.

Does that mean another season of Ice Queendom could be in our future?

Aki: Obviously if the fans respond well to it, there's a possibility for that. A lot of things can change though, so it's far too early to predict anything. As creators, if we have the chance to keep it going, we'll definitely try to.   What are you most looking forward to about the chance to introduce the world of RWBY to a new audience?

huke: The original really is special, and has a very unique style in terms of tempo. To be able to showcase that original through the lens of Japanese anime and introduce new fans to the series as a whole is a definite plus.

Ubukata: As Mr. Aki alluded to earlier, RWBY seems to have no borders for both creators and fans. One of the things that attracted me to this project was a desire to learn more about how a non-Japanese audience responds to this kind of show. I think overseas audiences often respond to a title differently than a Japanese audience does, so I was intrigued by the prospect of studying that and learning more about what kind of elements really appeal to a larger international audience.

Aki: Getting honest feedback is always nice, and a title like this really gives you a chance to see how both audiences respond to certain things.

Ubukata: Kind of like tossing a ball back and forth; I hope that we can respect the viewers through our works and influence each other in Japan and overseas, so that we can have a relationship that will bring joy to more people in the future.

The “ball toss” analogy is extremely fitting for a show like this that has drawn influences from anime...

Aki: That's true. I still think back to that first music video and thinking how cool it was that an American fan had taken inspiration from anime while creating it; honestly, when I first saw it, I assumed the creator must have been Japanese. Then that short became a whole series, but you still had moments within it where you could feel that inspiration. Some parts [in RWBY] felt like a Japanese romantic comedy!

Some of the silly parts of typical anime, some of the tropes – you could feel pieces of all of that in the original RWBY, almost as if it were a parody. I remember thinking that it was a sign that there are people outside Japan who recognize and appreciate all the pieces of a typical anime, and that made me happy. Likewise, our theme with Ice Queendom was to create our interpretation of the series. Honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing the kind of comments we get.

Kubota: It's not like we're just making a show for feedback though; the show has tremendous potential to reach a wide, diverse audience. That in turn gives us a glimpse into how the world responds to this kind of a show. I'm excited to see the results.

Aki: Do be nice about it though. If the criticism is too harsh, we might not want to make more! (laugh)

I have to ask about the humor of the series since you brought it up; humor can be difficult to get right for a global audience. Care to comment more on that?

Kubota: It's nice that anime has helped bridge that gap for its fans. I mean, there are a lot of American jokes that Japanese people don't understand when we see them in films and other media. We'll see it and think, “wait, was that supposed to be funny?”

Ubukata: Sometimes jokes don't work, and it can be contentious..

Aki: It's one of those things where you don't get angry when people say such horrible things.

Kubota: Still, if you're able to cater to that kind of humor and mood and you know that the viewers will appreciate it, it makes the whole creative process worth it.

I'm sure that plenty of fans will appreciate that level of care.

Kubota: Well, I hope they appreciate what we've tried to do with this anime.

Anything else you want to add? Any message for the fans?

Aki: Please say that it's good. (laughs)

Kubota: We will work hard to make it a great series and then you can say it's good.