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EP. REVIEW: The Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic


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Mencor



Joined: 24 Feb 2021
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:51 am Reply with quote
Cryten wrote:
chronium wrote:
Cryten wrote:

Immediately on seeing the puzzle boss I was thinking: Why not just attack the parts that arnt human? You cant harm in reflection (really should be called refraction since it isnt a simple reflect spell) the parts a human doesnt have. Oh no! My non existent tentacles have been cut or exploded.


Nothing in the character design could not also be found on a human.


Tentacles and slime. On attacking those are non human body parts. Thats what I meant.
I hope we get a kind of Naruto moment of proving. Where the character acts incompressible but also just does what is needed. (hopefully without side commentary, I prefer the post commentary method).


As best I can parse you suggestion to beat the person in black armor, that reflects damage back to the attacker, is to:
Find a tentacle beast or slime to fight instead, turning your back on your opponent, deserting the battle in the hope of finding such a monster and that harming it would damage the person in armor(emotionally?).
Thus you are either going to get cut down from behind by the person in armor, die fighting a meaningless battle or get tried for desertion should you get back.
I must say that this doers not seem like a viable plan.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 987
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:27 am Reply with quote
Mencor wrote:
Cryten wrote:
chronium wrote:
Cryten wrote:

Immediately on seeing the puzzle boss I was thinking: Why not just attack the parts that arnt human? You cant harm in reflection (really should be called refraction since it isnt a simple reflect spell) the parts a human doesnt have. Oh no! My non existent tentacles have been cut or exploded.


Nothing in the character design could not also be found on a human.


Tentacles and slime. On attacking those are non human body parts. Thats what I meant.
I hope we get a kind of Naruto moment of proving. Where the character acts incompressible but also just does what is needed. (hopefully without side commentary, I prefer the post commentary method).


As best I can parse you suggestion to beat the person in black armor, that reflects damage back to the attacker, is to:
Find a tentacle beast or slime to fight instead, turning your back on your opponent, deserting the battle in the hope of finding such a monster and that harming it would damage the person in armor(emotionally?).
Thus you are either going to get cut down from behind by the person in armor, die fighting a meaningless battle or get tried for desertion should you get back.
I must say that this doers not seem like a viable plan.


I am starting to wonder if you watched the same episode as me. Did you not see the slime tentacles come out of the black knight? There was even a scene where they where exploded by lightning and no reflection damage occurred.

Anyway it is not fun to argue over an off the cuff idea. I was just enjoying the show and thinking about how the fight could play out in different ways.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:04 am Reply with quote
InfiniteNothingness wrote:
Heck, it even allowed the the best character... sorry, I meant to say the best character, be equal parts goofy and super sincere in living her best life while letting her reflect on what a hollow life she lived in her previous world. Like, even if I "only" consider this a high 6 as it were (which is still good!), that conversation really struck a chord with me.


Suzune is an inspiration isn't she? I like Rose plenty, and Ushiro is more interesting than your average isekai protagonist, but she's the best thing. Unapologetically bringing her whole self. The weirdo bits, the charismatic leader bits, the vulnerable teen bits and the down bad for Ushiro bits.

While this series isn't threatening my all time greats list, I've enjoyed it well enough. It's all about the character interactions though, particularly Ushiro/Rose and Ushiro/Suzune. The action hasn't been anything to write home about, and while some aspects of the world building are interesting overall it's fairly mid and without a lot of depth.
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chronium



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:22 pm Reply with quote
Cryten wrote:

I am starting to wonder if you watched the same episode as me. Did you not see the slime tentacles come out of the black knight? There was even a scene where they where exploded by lightning and no reflection damage occurred.

Anyway it is not fun to argue over an off the cuff idea. I was just enjoying the show and thinking about how the fight could play out in different ways.


You definitely didn't understand what was going on. Those were attacks not a part of the body you can cut them all you want they would have done nothing. A character with real tentacles would have them visible from the start not hidden away.



It makes sense that he was just causing pain with his punches but there are more creative ways to use healing as attacks so I was disappointed with that explanation.
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Mikan-box Glasses-kun



Joined: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Thesarum wrote:
Suzune is an inspiration isn't she? I like Rose plenty, and Ushiro is more interesting than your average isekai protagonist, but she's the best thing. Unapologetically bringing her whole self. The weirdo bits, the charismatic leader bits, the vulnerable teen bits and the down bad for Ushiro bits.

While this series isn't threatening my all time greats list, I've enjoyed it well enough. It's all about the character interactions though, particularly Ushiro/Rose and Ushiro/Suzune. The action hasn't been anything to write home about, and while some aspects of the world building are interesting overall it's fairly mid and without a lot of depth.

Yeah all the character stuff you and InfiniteNothingness mentioned have been my personal reasons to watch the show, there's just more warmth and a-little-more-than-the-norm detail and texture to the character writing than I usually see from isekai that really appeal to me. It may not be enough to pull the series out of "pleasantly average", but that's enough for me in this case.

InfiniteNothingness wrote:
(Also, thanks for reminding me of Erin, that's been a real white whale of mine. I adored the first few episodes I saw in a way that few other anime have scratched its particular itch, but it's still been a white whale, of sorts, of mine. Hopefully I can get to prioritizing it next year...?)

You're welcome! I rewatched it for the first time in like a decade last year, it honestly really holds up well, even accounting for some dragged out 4-cour pacing and "we're making this for kids so we're mandated to add some comic relief" stuff. I actually even dragged my mom into the rewatch since she loves fantasy (and I find it easier to revisit something when showing it to other people), and she ended up really loving it.

Also, chronium, you're kinda being weirdly argumentative towards some very innocuous just-for-fun theorizing, so I kinda want to point out that prior to this most recent episode (and I'll spoiler tag since the review for it isn't out yet) spoiler[that we actually had no idea what the limits of the reflection were, what exactly was in the armor, or if there even was anyone in the armor instead of just being a sentient suit with weird goopy insides. Hell, it wasn't even revealed until now that the armor was purely magically made in the first place, which is some major context to how the tentacles work (which just seem to be an extension of the magic channeling the armor).]
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 987
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:00 pm Reply with quote
I largely liked the episode. All in all it went down a pretty standard path, with it only failing to capitalise on how its characters it spent time with would feel and react to real war and death. At least until the end monologue with Usato and Rose. It was nice to get some recognition there in the end, after the shonen battle bombastics.

For the Black Knight, we will have to assume the armor is some kind of slimey cursed armour or a skill of some sort. I doubt we will get much in the way of explanations why it failed to harm Usato when used as a normal physical weapon. (Outside of the not reflecting a healing punch part). The lady underneath leaves several story directions possible, sympathy for the devil, a potential follower / love interest (or rival), or something more on the dangerous side of politics and skullduggery.

One of the more odd things in the scenario we face is the insistence that the demons are more numerous, more powerful and have more magic then humans. But in every depiction outside of leader characters they are on the losing side of strength or just equal. And they fail to overwhelm with numbers or magic.

But in the long run that doesnt matter, the stories focus on characters experience is what holds the production together, and gives us the stakes of the show even while its world building is on the weaker side. And in that regards it remains a solid middle ground B grade experience. Well worth the time.

On a side note Inukami had several shots while wounded where her facial dimension really reminded me of 80's anime. Was really giving me female macross character vibes.
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chronium



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:16 pm Reply with quote
Mikan-box Glasses-kun wrote:

Also, chronium, you're kinda being weirdly argumentative towards some very innocuous just-for-fun theorizing, so I kinda want to point out that prior to this most recent episode (and I'll spoiler tag since the review for it isn't out yet) spoiler[that we actually had no idea what the limits of the reflection were, what exactly was in the armor, or if there even was anyone in the armor instead of just being a sentient suit with weird goopy insides. Hell, it wasn't even revealed until now that the armor was purely magically made in the first place, which is some major context to how the tentacles work (which just seem to be an extension of the magic channeling the armor).]


I'm sorry your feelings are being hurt by me pointing out flaws in someones logic but the show has told us a lot without needing a large amount of exposition. They've told us how reflection works since Rose's backstory, the character design was clearly showing armour and they showed us that it was liquid during the initial fight, they've been setting it up clearly that a healer was going to be the only way to beat a user with reflection. Heck it's very likely that the Demon King is the Demon that Rose failed to beat and after this past episode is the one that created the reflection armour.
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chronium



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Cryten wrote:

One of the more odd things in the scenario we face is the insistence that the demons are more numerous, more powerful and have more magic then humans. But in every depiction outside of leader characters they are on the losing side of strength or just equal. And they fail to overwhelm with numbers or magic.


Really that just comes from the shows inability to show the battlefield properly. You have to rely on the exposition and a few key visual moments to get that the Demons benefits stop mattering when the other side has healers that bring back the defeated humans.
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Mikan-box Glasses-kun



Joined: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:44 pm Reply with quote
Cryten wrote:
One of the more odd things in the scenario we face is the insistence that the demons are more numerous, more powerful and have more magic then humans. But in every depiction outside of leader characters they are on the losing side of strength or just equal. And they fail to overwhelm with numbers or magic.

Honestly that kinda bothers me a little too now that you point it out, but at least it's still very early into the demon's campaign so I can set that aside for now.
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InfiniteNothingness



Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:46 pm Reply with quote
I admittedly already spoiled myself on the events of episode 11, and the Black Knight being defeated with White... sorry, Healing Magic, delivered extra hard, is such a fitting combination of both its standard fantasy magic, its vibe, and the tried-and-true defeat through friendship and also violence, that I couldn't help but smile. That very much gets my neurons working in such a cozy way, haha.

spoiler[Suzune protectively, reflexively sparking lightning around her because she can't contain her emotions, was so cute. And speaking of the best character, her declaring Black Knight a "hardcore M" got a hard laugh out of me, and then again with the "flag" comment. Girl really doesn't have an off button, eh. I am admittedly pretty weak, and broadly receptive, to genre-savvy characters like herself, but I do think the show knows just how much to play up her otaku side without it being annoying, not that anything she's done has annoyed me.
Usato's and Kazuki's back-and-forth, too, was cute. Kazuki's a pleasant character to follow in his own subdued way.]

spoiler[Fellum is a darling, and another sweet character. Yūki Aoi is a treat to listen to as always, even if this role doesn't showcase all that she can really do.]
Also, I ship Aruku and Thomas.

Cozy episode all around. I would probably watch a sequel season, although I just as much want to just go read more of the manga anyway, especially since I've spoiled myself on a lot and it's looking like it will be more of the same, but differently, and slowly working out more and more of the world. Plus it's only 12 LN volumes, or alternatively, 13 manga volumes isn't that pressing for a series which presumably will go down just as easily.

Felt like doing a little post-mortem early since we're setting up for a cliffhanger and I don't expect the finale to change the needle much on my overall thoughts. It's been a fun, comfy ride, never aiming to be that much but also knowing just how far it should aim, with a likable cast and fun premise. It's essentially been a violent iyashikei for me in terms of overall energy (I am always down for more of that), not that we've been completely lacking in expected war struggles like losing your friends or Rose having an albatross around her neck for her arrogance. But, altogether, it fits the bill for me. I've also actually been looking forward to it every week without complications, which cannot be said for some of the others I've followed... actually probably half sans PreCure have come with complications now that I think about it haha. So there's that too!

I am pretty much categorically open to isekai even if I am fairly picky, and this is a reminder of the pleasant middle roads out there, and implicitly, the absolute highs as well. Besides, like I said, what even a touch -- really just a touch, this isn't Re: Zero or anything -- of awareness about how it can inform a story. Which certainly also rubs my neurons as well since I've only loved the portal fantasy subgenre more and more since I stopped being a kid.

It's not going to be topping any of my charts, but I've been entertained, and I'm keen on reading more, so I'd say it did its job well. Pleasant all around.

Thesarum wrote:
While this series isn't threatening my all time greats list, I've enjoyed it well enough. It's all about the character interactions though, particularly Ushiro/Rose and Ushiro/Suzune. The action hasn't been anything to write home about, and while some aspects of the world building are interesting overall it's fairly mid and without a lot of depth.

This is where I stand too, although as above, it really tickles the parts of my brain I so adore being tickled... so the score at the end of the day won't be as reflective of my overall feelings, but it's there.

Mikan-box Glasses-kun wrote:
You're welcome! I rewatched it for the first time in like a decade last year, it honestly really holds up well, even accounting for some dragged out 4-cour pacing and "we're making this for kids so we're mandated to add some comic relief" stuff. I actually even dragged my mom into the rewatch since she loves fantasy (and I find it easier to revisit something when showing it to other people), and she ended up really loving it.

Small issues to deal with, honestly! Or so it sounds like it'll be for me, knowing what it's like and a broad idea of how it is. Before that I gotta get to the books though, too... actually ended up buying them way back and have set on working through them first.
It's really cool to me to still see Uehashi writing and doing her thing even now, and especially given all of our losses in the past couple of years alone. Pretty happy and appreciative of that.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:04 pm Reply with quote
InfiniteNothingness wrote:
A bunch of stuff I agree with.

I think we're in total agreement.

spoiler[Suzune going into full over-protective mode on the way to meet the Black Knight got a big 'ole grin out of me. And her declaring her own flags "tripped" a got a full giggle. As a statement of fact, it's hard to argue with though. They are indeed. I'm not sure if we must diagnose Usato with Protagonist Obliviousness Syndrome at this point. Perhaps Suzune's theatrics work against her. She's trying so hard in her own idiosyncratic way though. I wish her the best.]
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malvarez1



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1677
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:12 pm Reply with quote
This is the harshest review I’ve read for anything in awhile, dang.
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InfiniteNothingness



Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:40 pm Reply with quote
How you phrased that got a chuckle out of me, haha. I think so! But it's still pleasant talk.

spoiler[My personal angle: Clearly Suzune needs to get with the gang's newfound friend then, while Usato continues to date the concept of denseness and running headfirst into every possible issue. It would be remiss of me not to, after shipping the two supporting lads who are also cute. Regardless, I hope Suzune's theatrics keep working against her, for it tickles that exact part of my funny bone that makes this show work for me, and her pouts are just as fun.]

I really cannot agree with calling this show the epitome of unrealized potential, or even half of that -- accounting for my many misgivings, and were I to set aside my belief in specifically its aims for better and for worse. Not even in the same season: Metallic Rouge has been one of the most persistently, to put it succinctly, deeply troubled works I've enjoyed over the past few seasons. Still far better in this aspect exclusively, Reign of the Seven Spellblades' adaptation, or a couple others I could name? (I could name some shows I am under the assumption critically lack in one or more qualities, but it would be going off of hearsay.)

I suppose I can bridge understanding by way of reflecting on the tonal contrasting of its overall lighthearted nature and frequent goofiness while talking about a war looming on the precipice? Given Jing's requests for more action in 4-5 and 7-10 as the framework being worked with.
Even that though is somewhat softened by way of emphasizing the precipice, and how this show has struck me as ultimately focusing on two things since day one: Building character and chemistry through conflict and the situations forcing our cast to confront their fears in a fittingly low-level fighty shōnen way (Comp Ace is a seinen magazine but that doesn't wholly apply to comics therein, which I find more valuable to focus on specifically in these contexts), and some good ol' slapstick as the vehicle. Rose beating the ever-loving tar out of our boy as such a frank demonstration of tough love makes a clean throughline to Suzune's declaration... I mean, Usato's taking her teaching to heart. I would still stand by all prior remarks in this vein on the broader scale, although I think it works more than not.
As much can be said for expectations as well, on the part of the only person I can speak for. The forest training arc (as it were?), with pivotal moments like our boy getting flung off his ass like a Looney Tunes character, getting one up on the snake through grit and training payoffs we experienced earlier, and then him getting more scared at the end of the day by his nutty superhuman teacher all work within the same field and functioned pretty reflectively of the show as a whole, I'd say. Not without warts I've no interest in repeating, but said warts not really clashing with the show's overall balance and thrust. I do think flashier, and more effective animation work, could theoretically ameliorate its more wanting facets; it still wouldn't critically change the piece though, ending up as a parallel to detractions made of variously many action-oriented shōnen series (Jujutsu Kaisen as a convenient example in terms of storytelling frustrations I have most often seen levied.

I also have thoughts on episode 12 being described as filler, to be saved for a bit later when a cozy bow can be placed on this.
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 452
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:30 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd call it unrealized potential, so much as selling a bill of goods the show had no interest in delivering- and thats mostly the show talking up the upcoming war from the very first episode and really failing to deliver on that anticipation in a timely or satisfying manner. Or subvert that anticipation at all.

Its interesting- I think I like each episode on its own merits quite a bit. I like the characters, think their actions and interactions are engaging and entertaining. I don't come out of any episode (except maybe the extended flashback,) feeling like its a waste of my time- except when I look at it in context of the larger narrative. There aren't many shows that get that particular reaction from me.
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T3rmidor



Joined: 14 Aug 2023
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:47 pm Reply with quote
Calling it filler is just plain unfair. I'm not going to say that the show isn' mediocre bc it honestly doesn't have that much going on, but to expect it to be something that it isn't at this point is just desillusional, bc the show strengths wasn't on it's action and is something that can seen from episode 1
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